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Starting A Reputation Management And Media Relations Business With Jennifer McGinley – AEP #22

August 21st, 2019 by

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Guest: ​​​​​​​​Jennifer McGinley

​Company / Business name: ​​​​​​ ​​​Business name: ​​​​​​​JLM Strategic Communications

Jennifer McGinley is the CEO of JLM Strategic Communications, founded in October 2017 and based in Hunt Valley, Maryland. Her company specializes in Media Relations, Community Outreach and Reputation Management. As a public relations professional for 25 years, Jennifer has built a reputation based on integrity, professionalism, attention to details and consistency. Prior to founding her company, Jennifer worked in the healthcare industry in the Philadelphia area before moving to Baltimore where she worked at the University of Maryland School of Medicine and the School of Pharmacy in public affairs, development and alumni relations.

Tools / Books / Resources mentioned:

Books: Giver by Bob Berg

Tools: LinkedIn Local

Show Notes:

01:10 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Find your passion and you’ll be surprised with the energy that brings in.

Jennifer talks about how helping out a friend who has a startup with PR energized her and made her look into having a side hustle working with startups and small/medium businesses.

05:03 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Pricing your services is key to a sustainable business.

Jennifer discusses some of the challenges she faced while building her business of which pricing has been the most important one. As she was hesitant to talk about money, she gave lot of free services early on but she realized her mistake and hired a business coach to help her.

06:30 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Knowing your strengths is key to success in business

Jennifer talks about her strengths (listening, detail oriented), and her focus on healthcare industry that she loves. With her focus on individuals and small companies, Jennifer is much more focused on serving rather than selling.

09:38 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Keep an open mind so you can pivot when necessary.

Jennifer talks about how she accidentally got started with PR as her original love was broadcasting like Jane Pauley and Katie Curic. A stint with Montgomery hospital opened up PR opportunity and her mentors encouraged her to run with it.

16:30 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: : LinkedIn can be a great B2B tool.

Jennifer talks about how LinkedIn Local really helped her identify clients and build the pipeline. She walks the process of building your credibility and building relationships.

18:08 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Be cautious in starting a business and believe in yourself.

Jennifer gives the following tips based on her experience. (1) Start with a side hustle (2) Have faith in yourself (3) Hire a business coach if you can (4) Network as much as you can.

21:24 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Know your strengths but also know your weaknesses and complement them where necessary.

Jennifer talks about her love for media relations, love for meeting people, and connecting with them. She also realizes her weaknesses in math / accounting etc. and she complements by hiring when needed. Ans she ends with a hashtag #BeYourself that she believes in. 

00:02

Ramesh: Hello everyone, welcome to the agile entrepreneur podcast. This is your host Ramesh Dontha. This podcast is about starting and building your own business with purpose, passion, perseverance and possibilities. Today our guest is Jennifer McGinley. So Jennifer is the CEO of JLM strategic communications, founded in October 2017 and based in Hunt Valley Maryland. Her company specializes in media relations, community outreach and reputation management and Jennifer spent plenty of years like 25 years or so in public relations. So she's a veteran in this area. Hey Jennifer welcome.

00:51

Jennifer: Thank you so much, it's lovely to be here. I appreciate it.

00:55

Ramesh: Thank you, so you are a public relations company and then you worked for public relations in industry for quite some time. But you decided to start your own company in 2017, why?

01:10

Jennifer: Yes, I was doing some fundraising for the Archdiocese of Baltimore in Baltimore Maryland and I loved my team very much. But on the side I was helping out a friend and colleague with his startup business and was just having such a great time getting him media placements and really helping him strategize with really his image, his reputation and some public relations campaigns that I realized you know in the morning when I was doing my work before my regular job, I was so energized and inspired that even my mom actually noticed it. She said Jen you really seem happy whenever you're doing the work, your side hustle work and I said I am. It just I missed that creativity and I appreciate fundraising so much and it's so important. But for me public relations just are a little bit more creative and that's just the way my brain is wired honestly.

02:04

Ramesh: So can you explain how the switch was like? Like so October 2017 you said I'm going to start my company, and then did you do it, this is continued to do it a side hustle? Did you quit your main job and he just switched over 100%?

02:22

Jennifer: So for about 18 months I did the side hustle work. I had everything very organized, I wanted everything very seamless, I had clients lined up. I had you know people said as soon as you leave your job let's talk. So I felt really organized and then about two weeks before I actually was quitting, I actually gave six weeks’ notice at my job. Because I wanted everything perfect on that end as well. Everything completely fell apart. So I had to start from scratch and for me LinkedIn has literally been a game-changer. I met some amazing people and so I started engaging more heavily and more methodically and strategically and then LinkedIn local started has now a global effort and so I helped to host the first several of those along with some other amazing colleagues in Baltimore. So I was able to get out in the public but have an online presence as well and so and then I landed a really amazing client within let's see about four months of starting. I got my first really kind of a dream client and that we worked together for about a year before they decided to kind of switch things up. But yeah, I mean it's a roller coaster. Being an entrepreneur honestly is a marathon and it is that pivoting and being really agile with resources and time and having a good support system as well.

03:50

Ramesh: Okay so I mean different entrepreneurs have different challenges. So some have a building a customer pipeline, some you know about the cash flow management, some about outsourcing and all that stuff. So in your case what were the main challenges?

04:08

Jennifer: I would say I need to be a better business minded person. I am a helper; I love to serve others and take care of people. But I need to be a bit more of a hardcore business woman and leader and so I think now that I’ve been in this you know position almost two years in October, I'm finally seeing the light and realizing that I have to be not so kind and want to help others. In fact my husband said I'm not a nonprofit and so I need to be a little bit more strategic in who I collaborate with and who I work with and associate with and make sure that I am honestly taking care of myself, my business. Which is you know and then it's taking care of my family financially as well.

04:55

Ramesh: So I mean just digging a little bit more, does it mean that pricing your service is that one of the challenges?

05:03

Jennifer: Definitely, I'm very uncomfortable talking about that. But I have hired an amazing business coach that has helped me see the light and it's still a daily struggle. Talking about money is not comfortable. Because I love what I do so much that it is something I could do for free if I had the financial wherewithal. But the reality is that's not the situation and I’ve been doing PR for over 25 years now and I know what I'm doing. I go with my gut intuition and I know I can help others amplify their message where they want it to be. So I need to have the confidence in myself to charge the prices that I know are fair and appropriate.

05:46

Ramesh: Okay so sounds good. So then how do you differentiate your services, PR services from other people's?

05:54

Jennifer: My superpower is listening. So when I meet someone or talk with somebody on the phone or have a zoom call or a Skype call, my radar starts going off and I start picking up details, whether or not I know I can help them truly or perhaps somebody else can. But I am a really good listener and I'm very detail oriented. So I can really customize my work to help that person, that organization or individual reach the goals that they're hoping to meet.

06:27

Ramesh: Okay, so are there any specific industries that you specialize in?

06:30

Jennifer: I love health care. I love working with physicians and scientists, artists, individuals that have gone from kind of adversity to an empowerment. I'm finding that I'm starting my vibe, I think is drawing in individuals with stories that they want to tell. Unfortunately if it's about abuse or addiction, something along those lines, I’ve been able to really amplify themselves or their brand for them. Because I think at my experience in health care and also working at a behavioral health hospital. I have such a huge respect and awareness and really, I'm an advocate for mental health as well and I know may is mental health month. I'm not sure when this podcast will run actually. But I have a huge respect for mental illness and mental awareness.

07:23

Ramesh: So I am listening to your story and Jenifer one thing that comes to my mind, you're working with individuals like you said as opposed to corporations.

07:33

Jennifer: Exactly, exactly and I am you know I think when I'm up and running, I will definitely love to work with larger businesses and corporations. Because what I'm seeing in the space that I'm in is leaders and leadership needs to take almost an organic or holistic approach to serving others that it's not, it's not about selling, it's about serving others and I love the book the go Giver by Bob Berg and after reading that I just and growing up with a father, that was all about serving others. I really think that corporations could benefit from really a community outreach or nonprofit approach to their for-profit business, if that makes sense.

08:17

Ramesh: Yeah makes sense, make sense. But given that most of your clients or individuals, then is one of the challenges and I should say focus areas is filling the customer pipeline|? Because the individuals may or may not stay for a long long period of time as opposed to corporations, you know they could be long serving clients?

08:39

Jennifer: Exactly and that's such a great question and a great point and basically what I'm doing is I'm on LinkedIn incessantly making contacts and connections and engaging with others and trying to put up content that is real of value to others, so that I am top of mind when the time is appropriate. If it's an author or you know somebody within steam stem or fitness, or you know nutrition and the arts as well. But also, I'm going out in the community. I'm starting to increase my visibility and be invited to amazing events or luncheons with other women, you know women in business, organizations as well. So I'm kind of slowly methodically and strategically increasing my brand personally in my business as well.

09:28

Ramesh: Okay excellent. So going back to this whole PR right, so how did you actually get into the PR in the first place?

09:38

Jennifer: Awesome, awesome. I did a lot of theater in high school in college and then I really wanted to be a broadcast journalist. Jane Pauley, Katie Couric, so many amazing female journalists just really inspired me and so I had worked with an amazing anchorwoman in Philadelphia who has been an anchorwoman for many years in the Philadelphia area, KYW. I interned for her for a semester and she ended up being a mentor for me and me truly value what an intelligent and empowering woman Pat is, and she tried to hook me up with a station in Hagerstown. I think it was where was she originally started and I sent you know my resume and called them monthly for about a year or two to try to get in, they didn't have any openings and then prior to that, she did some networking and had done a story at Montgomery Hospital in Norristown and she said Jennifer, I think PR could be really good for you until you end up landing a job in broadcast journalism and I loved working at a community hospital and that's where I really had my first taste of media relations. Because my boss at the time said Jen, just take it over, do it. You are going to be great at it, you're a great connector, you're a great listener and you're really you know attuned to all the details needed to do press releases. So literally I would say within a week or two of my job right out of college I was writing press releases on Estrogen replacement therapy, carpal tunnel syndrome, interacting with doctors and really creating my credibility and visibility in that hospital. So that they know they could trust me you know pitching their experience or their specialty to the media and just the satisfaction I got from you know speaking with a journalist, even if it was a local paper and really building relationships friends that I have to this day in the Philadelphia you know news, you know news outlets there as well. I just value that.

11:57

Ramesh: So it looks like okay, now I understand how you specialized in health care area.

12:02

Jennifer: Yeah absolutely.

12:04

Ramesh: So okay, actually I was talking to a friend of mine about the PR and then initially I said press relations and they corrected me, it's public relations. So tell me, let's say if you could break down the process, let's say the customers comes to you, how does the process work? Like what is that you do the first thing and if you could lay down from a business perspective that'll be great.

12:32

Jennifer: That's perfect, that's such a good question too as I you know kind of I guess really finalized my work with my client first, it's an hour an hour and a half phone call to get to know them, their experience, their backstory and I go back to that journalistic approach of the who, what, where, when and why of their work and their organization and then I figure out you know what is their goal, are they going to be writing a book soon? Do they want to do a TED talk? Do they want to really increase visibility within their local national market or their niche publications if they're in the science or biotech field? So I have to really be a good listener and take really good notes and kind of lock away that information and then from there by the wheels are just spinning great creative opportunities. Whether it's using www.helpareporterout.com, which I know another one of your guests mentioned in a recent podcast as well. That's a free service and I highly recommend that for whether or not you hire a PR person or not. But also you know getting their name out in the local media first, but I also need to make sure that they're a credible source. They have either certification or education within that field, I'm learning too that startups are amazing and so inspiring. But you know they need to return profit first, they need to be a credible source and a credible business before I get them into the media. Because I need to be careful as a PR expert that I am providing legitimate sources to the media and that's huge. Especially right now with the media and with all the news that's out there and how it's all created and whether or not it's real or not, ethics and values are huge to me. They always have been, always will be. You know credibility is just really the cornerstone I think of journalists and in public relations expert, that we really need to hold that dear when we work. So after the phone call then I love writing a bio and getting a new headshot for a client. I try to write a bio that is all-inclusive. You know a little bit of their educational background, a little bit of you know why they started their business and quotes from them and statistics and any research that are appropriate. If it's on behavioral health or addiction or science or I'm now working with a top chef from Food Network, I need to know his story as well. So I love to get that back story and bring some warmth to my work. So there's an emotional attachment there. Because I think what the media needs to do today, and they are doing very well is really telling stories. I think telling a story draws in a media outlets audience a lot easier than just running off information. I think you need to create a story and awareness. So really, it's you know it's getting the client to sign on for three months minimally. Because I need to get to know the client and I need to kind of position them appropriately for any media outlets and also community outreach too. I love setting up you know pro bono speaking engagements, then if they can get paid speaking engagements on their own, it's really about increasing visibility, credibility and first it's really connections. It's using their connections and me using my connections to increase that brand overall and it's just kind of step by step, like working in a public relations department, are there any events coming up? Is its mental health month? Is it you know any anything else we can kind of grab along or hold on to within you know any trends, breaking news or anything hot happening? You know nationally or locally for that client.

16:30

Ramesh: Okay so and okay you walked us through the process of how you build a public relations campaign with clients. And then we talked about the pricing aspect of it and I think we also talked about the specialization that you do. So in running your business you mentioned LinkedIn couple of times and then you specifically talked about LinkedIn local. So how does a LinkedIn local help your business? What do you do?

16:54

Jennifer: Again it's me meeting people. Just literally taking online connections and meeting them face to face and shaking hands and eye contact and building a solid relationship. Which public relations is public relationships? It's all about you know really people getting to know me, getting to know what I stand for, getting to know the clients that I work with and it's that credibility level. It's huge and honesty and keeping my word to people and meeting them for coffee and helping them too sometimes, flesh out an idea or brainstorming as well that you know it's great to meet people online and I appreciate it so much. But meeting people locally or traveling to meet people is also really valuable.

17:44

Ramesh: Okay that's very interesting. Nowadays we're talking a lot of remote online, but I think you're really emphasizing the face-to- Face aspect.

17:52

Jennifer: Absolutely, yeah.

17:53

Ramesh: So you started your journey. It's going you know quite well I would say. So based on this reflecting on your own journey, what tips can you offer to other entrepreneurs?

18:08

Jennifer: Yeah go slow, have a strategy. You know if you have a paying job I would say stay there for a while until you can put some money in savings away so that during that slow time, that startup time which is really 18 months to three years and even five years I know with businesses, because if you're the breadwinner you know don't take it lightly and it sounds great when you watch the YouTube videos or you know the time five or ten podcasts about you know, oh just do it, live your best life. But you really need to ratchet that back and reality needs to hit that. If you've got a mortgage to pay and children to raise, be cautious. But do what you love. So if you can do the side hustle for a while, stick it out and then build your client base slowly and I really think that there are challenges that you need to meet. But have faith in yourself and surround yourself by people that you trust, you believe in and they believe in you and get a business coach if you can. I would never of thought of that before. Because I'm a person that likes to do everything on my own. But after meeting my business coach, just that connection and knowing that I don't have to do things on my own or alone, it's a huge learning curve for me and then hiring a virtual assistant to help me with my website and set up a few other things that once I had money saved, I could spend a little bit on the things that I'm not good at. I don't like designing websites, I don't like those nitty gritty things. My husband helps me with my accounting. He happens to have a little bit of a background in that. So I'm very fortunate and I have an amazing supportive husband, who I'm so lucky to have you know on my side and my children as well. So you know don't do things alone, accept help. But be cautious and get yourself out there. Do the coffee's, do the lunches, allow people to pick your brain a little bit, but don't allow them to take advantage of you and don't give it all away for free. I've been burned many times. But I'm learning and you know you do have to fail in order to move forward. So I really, I value those lessons, but I'm definitely learning from them as well.

20:29

Ramesh: Excellent actually, very good advice. So basically have a support network, both family and that's one and then secondly also establish a support network like a virtual assistant or you know other areas and then third one you talked about the business coach. That’s a really good advice and then the fourth one you talked about is go slow right. So as much as your time, side hustle and then continue to do it. So that's very good Jennifer. So let's, one of the last questions probably I would ask is you as a person Jennifer I mean what are your strengths that you brought into the business that helped you and what are the areas that you had to rely on other people? I mean we talked about the website and all that stuff. But your own personality traits, characteristics that lent automatically to the business.

21:24

Jennifer: Yes, I think my love of people and connecting on that human level and kind of, I'm an empath and I'm empathetic as well. So that I get people, I draw in people that are warm and caring and thoughtful and have great empowering stories that I want to help them tell and I think that's my non-profit background. My father actually worked for 50 years doing fundraising for Catholic universities up and down the East Coast. So in the world of fundraising it's all about cultivating really good solid relationships with other humans and he was absolutely stellar at that and then my attention to details and being a very kind of sensing person of surroundings and listening to people, watching body language and also seeing the broader picture. You know seeing a human being and seeing their true potential and how I can help them, whether it's getting them you know live segments on TV, the first day of mental health month or getting them in a newspaper article to talk about the Me2 movement knowing that I can really help them and help them carry their message out into the community that they want to serve. And then I would say weaknesses are the math and the numbers and the nitty-gritty details of running a business that just kind of make me nauseous. I just want to do the work. I love to write; I love to network and connect people. But you know I love Media Relations. It's just my favorite thing to do. I could do it day and night, which I do. But you know really customizing my work and that hand-holding that I love, but again getting back to weaknesses, it's the accounting and all those the stuff that I don't enjoy that I have to hand off and have somebody that is an expert in that take care of it and allowing help and accepting help.

23:28

Ramesh: Yeah, exactly. You don't have to do it all. Being an entrepreneur itself is very difficult as it is. So excellent Jennifer. So I mean this is a tremendous you know piece of advice there and then it's a very good journey so far. You keep going there. So any last-minute thoughts?

23:51

Jennifer: Yeah, I just you know what I tell my clients before an interview or before a friend, she did a White House summit for legislation, you know just be you, be yourself and that actually is my hashtag that I really believe that. Any opportunity that comes your way, you're chosen for it because of the way you've presented yourself, you've carried yourself and the credibility that you bring to the table. So I think at the end of the day if you're an honest good person, that really wants to make this world a better place that you will rise to the top.

24:25

Ramesh: Jennifer excellent advice, next and final thoughts. Good luck to your business.

24:30

Jennifer: Thank you so much, I appreciate your time.

24:32

Ramesh: Thank you

How To Start An Academic Consulting Business From Scratch with Dr. Shirag Shemmassian – AEP #21

August 12th, 2019 by
Guest: ​​​​​​​​Shirag Shemmassian

​Company / Business name: ​​​​​​ ​​​Shemmassian Academic Consulting

Dr. Shirag Shemmassian is the founder of Shemmassian Academic Consulting. He and his team help high-achieving students get into America’s top colleges, medical schools, and other graduate programs.

Tools / Books / Resources mentioned:

Books: Calendly, Skype; Mentors: Ramit Sethi

Show Notes:

01:14 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Keep doing what you love to do and money will follow. 

Shirag starts off by explaining how a Ph. D. in Clinical Psychology got into starting an academic consulting business. It’s primarily started off with Shirag helping friends and family for free which generated enough interest to become a profitable business.

03:04 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: All you need are paying customers to validate your business and the rest will fall in place.

Shirag talks about how he started making money even before he formally organized or even had a web site. It all started as a side hustle and word of mouth. Then the referrals kept coming and Shirag could really sense that there is a viable business.

05:59 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Don’t wait for that magical perfect price or perfect channels. Keep iterating.

Shirag talks about the trial and error involved in finding the fair price for his services. He started off with a price that he thought was fair but as he kept realizing that the value delivered by him to help students to get into top colleges like Harvard and Stanford was much higher, he increased his prices. In the process, he also learnt about other aspects of the business like marketing and promotion.

11:10 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Be realistic about business challenges especially time management and growth management.

Shirag talks about challenges of time management and quality control. Given that the academic consulting is still a side business (even though a very health one), time management has been a challenge but he has gotten better at it. Second challenge is maintaining quality with other coaches he has hired to support the growing business.

17:36 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Outsource where necessary. Don’t try to be a superhero.

Shirag talks about the operational aspects of his business. Shirag outsourced accounting and payroll. He uses Calendly for appointment scheduling, Skype and phone for coaching.

19:06 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Be a constant learner. Be curious. You never know where that will lead you.

Shirag talks about his evolution from someone who wanted to become a physician and how his interest in mental health led him into clinical psychology. He also talks about his immigrant background and how that motivated him into keep driving himself. His natural curiosity led him into starting his business and he is now hooked.

22:01 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Keep yourself surrounded by a positive group of people.

Shirag talks about his drive which is to take care of his family for a comfortable life and also people like Ramit Sethi who inspired him. He also talks about his wife, family members, and friends who keep guiding him.

24:25 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Start now, pivot if you need to, learn from mistakes and keep going. 

Shirag gives some parting advice for would be entrepreneurs. (1) Figure out what you have to offer and see if there is a market for it (2) Don’t try to create a market which is very difficult to do (3) Don’t keep waiting for ‘perfect’ everything. Start now, learn from mistakes (4) Start, pivot, fix things, and enjoy what you do.

00:06

Ramesh: Hello everyone, welcome to the agile entrepreneur podcast. This is your host Ramesh Dontha. This podcast is about starting and building your own business with purpose, passion, perseverance and possibilities. Today we have an exciting guest, his name is dr. Shirag Shemmassian. Dr. Shirag Shemmassiyan is the founder of Shemmassiyan academic consulting. He and his team have been helping high achieving students get into America's top colleges, medical schools and other graduate programs. Dr. Shirag Shemmassian for you, Shirag welcome.

00:50

Shirag: Hey thanks for having me Ramesh. I appreciate the introduction.

00:53

Ramesh: Thank you. So, let me get started. First about you, it's definitely says Dr. Shirag Shemmassian. So, what is your doctorate in?

01:03

Shirag: I have a PhD in clinical psychology from UCLA.

01:08

Ramesh: Okay. So, you have a clinical psychology. How did you get into academic consulting?

01:14

Shirag: Yeah it sorts of been happening for a long time now. I describe myself as an admissions nerd. But really when I was growing up in Los Angeles and attending the high school I did; we didn't have a lot of resources when it came to college counseling. So, I was self-taught, because I wanted to go to great schools and when I was able to achieve personal admission success, there were a lot of people coming to me. So folks who were in lower grades, friends of friends, family members friends things like that and over time word-of-mouth grew as people were having their own success in part through my help and when it grew you know to a certain point, I said okay there's clearly something here and I was helping people completely free of charge. But I already knew that it was a it was a proven business idea and I just really love this work. Because you know admissions in the United States is such a high-stakes process that has a lot of consequences for education and career, so it's incredibly fulfilling to be a small part of student’s education and careers.

02:20

Ramesh: Interesting. So, when did you officially start your business?

02:24

Shirag: So, I officially started the business in fall of 2013 and when I say start, I literally emailed my parents and I think my best friend saying, hey I just started a business. Basically, to start getting the word out and letting them know that I was serious about doing this kind of work. But I was helping people get into these top programs for, I’ve been helping people get into these top programs for over 15 years at this point.

02:50

Ramesh: Okay. So, prior to 2013 you've been helping but you didn't get paid, that is when you officially started the business. So, can you actually go through the process of what was the official start of the business meant for you?

03:04

Shirag: Yeah it was just I think more about convincing myself that you know this is a real business venture and that I'm actually going to go for it. I think like a lot of people want to be entrepreneurs like I was back then, I always thought that I would start something. I didn't know what that would be or how I would go about it. So, I have zero formal business education and you know have since read books and taking online courses and things like that. So, I was unsure of myself for a long time. Whether I'd be able to do it. So, you know even sending that small email was a way to announce it to people close to me and in some ways to keep myself accountable right. Because inevitably I would get questions about things like, hey how's the business going and what are you up to these days and so on and it's you know, we started very small so I didn't have a website when I started or anything like that. It was entirely through word-of-mouth and in fall of 2014 my wife's best friend helped me set up the website and it's really in the, you know then is when I started taking things more seriously in terms of publishing content and you know getting the word out there in a bigger way.

04:11

Ramesh: Okay. So during the very first month people go through the process of first having an idea for a business, in your case the idea was already there because you've been doing it and then secondly people try to validate that idea for a market viability and in your case that is also not there, because you've been doing it for quite some time. So, then the next step is actually forming an organization and all this stuff. Is that what you started with?

04:41

Shirag: Yeah, I mean at the beginning was just me. So you know I figured okay I’ve been helping people and this is like I said I think a viable business idea, I think I can get paid for this. I had no idea what to charge, in fact I charged far too little at the beginning and I didn't really know how to get customers right. So I was relying on the same old word-of-mouth. But given that for such a long time I had been helping people for free, it was a shock to a lot of people that oh you're charging now, like that's not what I had heard. So I had to also find customers outside of that circle of people that I had been helping and that really came through like I said through referrals that my parents sent me or you know a former teacher sent me and stuff like that and I started reaching out before I had a website to various community organizations to do some public speaking, free of charge of course. Where I was just helping spread the word about what it takes to get into top colleges and medical schools. But also how I can be helpful to them in that regard.

05:45

Ramesh: Excellent. So basically, you've been building a customer pipeline through the referrals. You did mention the pricing aspect of it. How did you come down to what you are going to charge?

05:59

Shirag: Complete trial and error. So in the beginning it was very little amount. I would say for the first student who signed up for like a full plan you know to guide them through an entire application process, I believe the investment for them was like $1,200. The same plan today is $5,000 and so and I was the one doing all of the work and going through multiple rounds of edits and phone calls and stuff like that, I suspect I made below minimum wage for those first few students that I was supporting. I think what changed for me with pricing was first off you know I think just mentally I don't know that I was ready to charge higher, because I wasn't comfortable with it. So I had to get comfortable charging more and that happened I think in a few ways. The first is you know getting validation from customers that yes, I will pay X amount for this service right. I think it's all an idea until someone actually hands you their card figuratively speaking and when you take payment, you're like, oh like I think we can you know people are charging, no one's really arguing about the price. Which is a hint that you might be charging too little. You know if you start getting, you should get some pushback. Not so much that no one signs up, but some pushback right. I think that's when you’re finding your happy place pricewise. But then the other thing was I started reconsidering what I actually was providing. So a lot of times people say, oh I can find an editor somewhere else or my school there's a counselor at my school too and stuff like that and I was thinking, well I'm not simply offering you editing and counseling services to get into these colleges. I'm dramatically increasing your odds of getting into your dream programs, right? And whether I provide X service or Y service, as long as I can help you achieve your goal in an ethical manner, like then that's the value that you're paying for and that just completely shifted the way I was thinking and now I was like, you're not paying for X amount of phone calls and edits, you're paying for admission success and knowing how high-stakes the process is in the States and how strong the desire is to attend great schools like Harvard and Stanford and so on, the proposition became very clear in my mind and that also allowed me to you know to market and sell better. Because I believe things better and I can communicate things in a way that I think resonated with students and parents.

08:38

Ramesh: Excellent, excellent. Actually so I mean what I got out of that is from a business perspective, you looked at your product offering itself and then the value that offered and then you revaluated the pricing based on the value that you were giving, you are offering for the service and did you view any competitive research in the process?

08:54

Shirag: To be honest very little. So I looked at, you know I looked at other websites and I saw okay how is like packaging done and you know that was part of my business education right. How do you put things together and so on? But I didn't want to anchor our pricing to what someone else's pricing was, and I think that's a very important thing for entrepreneurs myself included to consider. Because you know sometimes people say oh well your competitors are charging X and you know whether it's us being able to help students achieve a higher success rate or perhaps we're more white-glove than other companies or you know for whatever reason I didn't want to peg myself to someone else and you know it also means that you're playing in a sandbox with a lot of other people right? So for instance Rolls Royce doesn't say, "Oh Honda's charging twenty-five thousand dollars, maybe we should charge twenty-five thousand dollars too for our cars." there's variable quality and you should be charging based on the level of support that you offer.

10:03

Ramesh: Actually that is a very good insight that you have there in terms of pricing your product. That's very nice. So Shirag let me ask you another question. You've been at it for about five plus years, is it your full time or is it a side gig so it's still a side gig?

10:20

Shirag: So it’s still a side gig. So I still do some work as a research psychologist and you know I helped develop psychological tests. But the business has reached a point where you know it can certainly be full time and takes up quite a bit of my time and I’ve been talking to my wife a lot about that transition and making sure that you know our life is set up, so I can not only focus on work but on family. We have a ten-month-old, so this is all very top of mind for us right now.

10:49

Ramesh: So I don't know much about what you do on the site. But is that considered a full-time job or?

10:55

Shirag: It is.

10:57

Ramesh: Okay so you have a full-time job and then you're still doing this. So then let me ask you this question about the time management. Because that is a huge huge issue for entrepreneurs. So how do you manage your time?

11:10

Shirag: Oh it's a work in progress. So you know in the beginning especially and you know this is still true, it just took a lot of work to you know to make sure that you're a meeting not only your current students demands, but if you're making a decision to grow, you can't just meet existing student demands. You have to also you know do other things to market and you know get additional support and things like that. So very long nights working on weekends, yesterday was Memorial Day and you know still working on Memorial Day. So it's a lot of work and you know it's been challenging at times. Because truthfully you know I wish it could be sometimes like oh you know at this time of day I'm done, and you know I can plan this activity and so on with my family or what-have-you. But I'm still learning that how to do that well. I think I’ve been better recently about when I'm on, I'm on and when I'm off, I'm off. I think a lot of times in the past you know work sort of trickled into personal life where you know I'd be checking my phone, when I really should be attending to loved ones and things like that. But I’ve been much better lately. I would say in the past year. I think having a kid really forced me to do this is you know saying, okay these are the times I work, and these are the times I don't work, and it's actually been really nice for me mentally and also for my family.

12:40

Ramesh: So looking at your journey, it seems more like you have a healthy customer pipeline. So the money coming in doesn't seem like an issue. But the other challenges that you have of course the time management aspect of it. Apart from these two, what other challenges did you face along the journey?

13:01

Shirag: Yeah, I mean Quality Assurance is a big one for me and I’ve been very fortunate to have people who work with me who are I think really the cream of the crop when it comes to supporting students with admissions and it goes hand in hand the time management piece. Because in the beginning when you don't have you know a ton of positive cash flow or when you're still figuring out like okay was it just the one-year fluke, is it's going to be a sustained thing. You know there are all of these doubts that creep into your mind or at least they did for me and so I think I was a little bit slow in hiring help. Whether that was you know bringing on other consultants to support students alongside me to hire a support person. I recently hired my first full-time employee to help me with marketing and it's not just like oh you know you know they can help me with one thing, and I can work more etc. It's in some ways like buying back your time, right? When you're hiring employees. Because there are all these things that I was doing that I found there are other people who can do it just as well as I do and so what can I focus on as a CEO that maybe I'm uniquely good at or you know uniquely positioned to do. But of course with growth comes Quality Assurance right. When you're the CEO and you do everything in your business, you're intimately familiar with everything and you have your own way of doing things right for better for worse. Some things I think you know the way I thought of it was a good idea and then other things you know people on our team have shown me that there are far better ways to do it. But the things that I think you know but when you grow, you don't have control over every piece. So you worry about hey is this getting done to the same quality that I would when I was doing it and you know fortunately because I'm so serious about who I bring on, that's been a very small issue for us. But it's something that I think about constantly, because I never want quality to dip.

15:04

Ramesh: Yeah that is true. I go through that myself all along. For example graphics is something that I want to outsource it, but the messages that go on that stuff is I want to own it right. So coordinating that stuff is always a tough one. So we talked about the customers and then the people that you're hiring also a little bit we touched upon. Are your customers, the students mostly remote or local physical, can you talk a little bit about how your business operates?

15:39

Shirag: Yeah so, we support all of our students 100% remotely. So it's done over phone, Skype and email and I think it's actually really nice. Because we don't have any time or location or traffic constraints or anything like that. It works out very well for our students and for our team and also our consultants are all over the country. So many of them I’ve never met in person. But we've you know obviously we've communicated and they've gone through an interview process and all this kind of stuff and you know people live all across the country, they serve students all across the country and its really allowed us to I think expand our customer base, but also be flexible in this work. Because it's been a big value of mine for the business to work for our lives, rather than us have to dramatically modify our lives to fit the business.

16:35

Ramesh: So I mean do you have a system or some software that you developed for how you deliver whatever you're delivering. So how does it work?

16:45

Shirag: Yeah, we actually have no software that you know that we've developed for the business. So we use phone, we use email and you know Skype. Because it works really really well. If I you know if we built the software, there's no telling like if that would work exactly the way we want it and also like people would need new logins and all I think it adds a level of complexity and perhaps we'll get there at some point. But for our purposes and for our students’ purposes, you know phone and email work really really well. So we keep it very simple in that way and it allows us you know we're editing essays and having phone calls and things like that, it's pretty smooth.

17:26

Ramesh: Ok so then what other tools do you use in your business. I know you talked about Skype. But let's say cover accounting, all other aspects, so what are the tools that help you manage?

17:36

Shirag: Yeah happy to list all those. So for bookkeeping services I outsourced bookkeeping to a company that I believe is based in Baltimore. It's a smaller company. His name is Harris Calsavitch. I believe that's how you pronounce it, it's called www.outsourceto.us, they're great, so I'm happy to you know promote them. So you know since I have a full-time employee now, I have no idea how to do payroll and benefits and things like that. But there's a fantastic company I believe they're based in San Francisco called Gusto, they've been incredibly helpful in providing like a seamless you know environment to manage HR and then finally I use Calendly, to manage you know complimentary consultations that students and parents can schedule with me to you know to talk about our services, their admissions process or whatever they like. So we do use some existing tools. But that's, I don't think I'm missing anything, that’s the extent of it.

18:45

Ramesh: That’s excellent. I mean a very smooth and simple operations there. Okay so let's talk a little bit about you. So dr. Shirag I must mean you as a person you always, I mean did you guess imagine that you would be starting a business at some point growing up or talked a little bit about you and your dreams?

19:06

Shirag: Yeah growing up I'm not sure I thought about starting a business. So you know my parents are immigrants from Lebanon and you know they escaped the Civil War there in the 70s and you know they eventually moved to Los Angeles. Where we grew up in the Armenian community. So we're ethnic Armenians. But my parents are from Lebanon, born and raised. And you know like a lot of other immigrants they taught my brother and me like, go to school, become one of these few professions, get a great job and you know go for the secure thing and all that stuff. And so I always had it in my head to be a physician. I always thought I would be a surgeon growing up and I was actually pre-med all throughout college too. I was like Cornell, I was pre-med, I did very well there. But I grew up with Tourette syndrome and I was doing a lot of mental health research in college and so that's what really led me to clinical psych and pivoting in that direction. But I think I would say after undergrad, there were a few of my close friends who we all had you know immigrant parents and we were all having these conversations in our early twenties about like is this it? You know or are there like other options? And you know I don't want anyone listening to this to take it the wrong way and that you know getting a great job in a you know a great professional field is a bad thing or anything like that. In fact you know I still have a job and I love what I do, and I love mental health and things like that. But we were just questioning like is there anything else out there and so I started getting very interested in things like, personal finance and investing you know owning real estate, starting a business and there are all of these ideas coming in. Once you get into this self-help and investment and entrepreneurship rabbit-hole, you can go as deep as you want to go right and so I’ve gone incredibly deep and I don't know that I can get out of the hole I dug myself into and I'm perfectly happy with that outcome. So I think you know like I said growing up it wasn't really there. But I think once the seed was planted, I guess the rest is history.

21:26

Ramesh: You have a kind of a smooth evolution into a business as opposed to other people. You know they work, and they get fired and they say, hey what do I do now? I want to start a business and even none of those kinds [21:37 inaudible]. Okay so it's more of a self-reflection, figuring out who you are, what you want to do kind of stuff and then it evolved into a business, very nice okay. Right so I mean what drives you. Like either mentors or people inspire you or books or things that drive you and keep you motivated?

22:01

Shirag: Yeah, I'm glad you brought this up Ramesh. Because you know I feel fortunate and that I am fairly intern driven person and goal oriented. So there are certain things that I want to achieve personally. But also you know a level of comfort for my family and I want to absolutely do everything I can to help our students be successful. I take their trust very seriously. So I think for the most part those things are sufficient to drive me. But it would be a mistake for me to say that I you know I do this all alone and it's all internal or things like that. Because I have a few close friends who are also interested in this kind of like personal development and entrepreneurship and pushing themselves and so we keep each other accountable. My wife pushes me, but also reminds me about what we're doing this all for. You know to build a comfortable life for ourselves and you know positive support the people that we help and then in terms of mentors and books and things like that, I was very fortunate several years ago, I would say back in 2014 to come across the work of Ramit Sethi, perhaps other people have brought up his name as well. But he's an entrepreneur who writes a lot about personal finance and entrepreneurship and online business and all this kind of stuff and at the beginning of 2015, you know I was on his email list and I signed up for this course called zero to launch and it was all about you know starting and growing an online business and that's what really helped me in terms of like producing content and guest posting. These are things I had never really heard about and that I think accelerated the process for me and I took that stuff very seriously. Since signed up for a more of Ramits courses, had a chance to meet him in person and get involved with other folks who in his community and I think that in some ways has been the rocket fuel for my work and like I said I don't get paid for saying any other stuff. I just really believe that his work is incredible and has been a major driver for me and for my business.

24:08

Ramesh: Yeah, I know, that’s good. Hey as we come to the end of the podcast here, one question I wanted to ask you is if I'm sitting at home and I want to start a business, so what tips can you all for me?

24:25

Shirag: Boy there are several. I guess I think some of them revolve around mindset right and then other ones revolve around doing stuff and you know a lot of would-be entrepreneurs out there I think it's like they're looking for the tool or the right time and things like that and I don't think there's a tool or a right time that's going to solve you know whatever the issue is. I think one of the one first things are getting very clear on what it is that you want to offer and first make sure that there's a viable market for it. So just and so you can reflect on things that you've seen other people get paid for things that you're good at, things that people compliment you on and then see like is there anyone else out there doing this and getting paid for it and sometimes when people see others doing something and getting paid for it, they think oh my gosh like there's too much competition, I shouldn't enter there. The other way to think about that is, oh like that's a viable market right. So make sure you have like a market. Don't try to create a market. I mean very few companies in history are successful at doing something like that. But identify what desires are, where else there's an existing market and figure out, okay do I have an existing skill set or do I receive like compliments for something that other people get paid. I think that's really really important. It helps bring, make things more tangible rather than just sitting in a room by yourself and wondering what should I do? Because that's not really going to get you anywhere and then the other thing is to start, right. We're also worried about like breaking things, right. If I start this activity, I'm going to screw it up, what if no one pays me, all this kind of stuff. And you know what? There's some, in some ways that's a fortunate position. Because when you're small, you're judged far less and when you make initial mistakes, no one really finds out about it, right. Versus when you grow and all that kind of stuff, you have more exposure and whatnot. So just start and realize that you know you're not expected to know everything from day one. I've been in this for years now, I still don't know everything and I'm a work in progress. I think just like every other company and entrepreneur. So, start, learn, pivot when you need to, fix things when you need to, when something works double down on it and I guess enjoy it however much you can.

26:43

Ramesh: Shirag actually you know what, looks like it you stole my script. That is precisely fantastic, that is exactly how I operate and how I tell. That's phenomenal. I'm so amazed to see you tell the story the way I will tell, that's exactly that the way to do it.

27:04

Shirag: Oh I am glad we are aligned.

27:06

Ramesh: Completely. So excellent Dr. Shirag Shemmassian of Shemmassian academic consulting. Shirag thank you very much for your time.

27:15

Shirag: My pleasure Ramesh, likewise, thank you.

Building a productized service business editing & hosting podcasts with Craig Hewitt – AEP #20

August 12th, 2019 by
Guest: Craig Hewitt

​Company / Business name: ​​​​​​ ​​​Podcast Motor

Craig Hewitt is the Founder of PodcastMotor, a productized service which offers done-for-you podcast editing and production. Podcast Motor has a team of 15 remote members spread across 4 continents and are responsible for around 40 podcasts on a regular basis.

Craig is also the founder of Castos podcast hosting and analytics with a to enable everyone to create their own podcast and share their voice with the world. Castos just celebrated it’s 2nd birthday and more than 1,000 customers are on the platform.

Tools / Books / Resources mentioned:

Books: Profit First by Mike Michalowicz, Traction by Gino Wickman.

Show Notes:

01:32 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: If there is no solution for a problem you are facing, most likely other people are struggling too. Solve that problem and you have a business. 

Craig starts off by talking about how he stumbled his way into starting podcast motor when he actually started his own podcast but found it cumbersome to get it edited and published. He calls it ‘scratch your own itch’ way of starting a business where you solve your own problem and in the process build a business to start similar problems.

04:52 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Figure out your calling in life and focus on what you can accomplish. 

Craig calls himself a hopeless entrepreneur who is practically unemployable in a corporate world. Instead of spinning wheels in a corporate world, Craig really wanted to accomplish meaningful things by being on his own. Even though he started by selling capital equipment to hospitals, Craig is now in a 3rd iteration of his entrepreneurial journey.

06:47 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Be agile and nimble in starting your business.

Craig is a big believer in productized service business and a prime example of get started quickly. He went from an idea to a paying customer in 3 weeks and a monthly revenue of $5,000 in 2 months. Start with a problem you can solve for customers and find a way to do it soup-to-nuts for them. Then you can keep pivoting from there.

08:30 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: If there is no solution for a problem you are facing, most likely other people are struggling too. Solve that problem and you have a business. 

Craig gives examples of where his friend Justin McGill started a challenge to start a business in 24 hours and his SAS business lead fuse did exactly that. In this segment, Craig also talks about building a customer pipeline with a combination of organic traffic (70%) and paid traffic (30%).

15:04 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: There are always multiple sources of motivation: personal and professional. Find yours.

Craig talks about the motivation needed to build his business. (1) He wanted to quit his full-time job and the side business he started seemed like the path (2) And the pipeline of customers who needed him provided him the additional motivation.

17:37 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Read the following books if you can: The Profit First and Traction.

Craig mentions two books that were instrumental in shaping him and his business. The first is ‘Profit First’ by Mike Michalowicz which talks about paying yourself first from the profits. The second book is ‘Traction’ by Gino Wickman which is kind of a blueprint for running a business. Craig also mentions Dave Ramsey’s thinking on how you need to tell the money what to do.

21:12 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: If there is no solution for a problem you are facing, most likely other people are struggling too. Solve that problem and you have a business. 

Craig gives few pieces of wisdom from his experience in this section. Even though Craig believes in everyone starting their own business, he says that a corporate experience is key for every would be entrepreneur to understand the inner workings of a business. Craig is a big believer in productized service business and he believes that instead of banging your head against trying to test every other business model, just focus on productized service business for quick cashflow. Lastly, he advises on having enough of a cushion with finances to tide over hard times.

00:03

Ramesh: Hello everyone, welcome to the agile entrepreneur podcast. This is your host Ramesh Dontha. This podcast is about starting and building your own business with purpose, passion, perseverance and possibilities. Today our guest is Craig Hewitt. Craig is the founder of podcast motor, a productized service which offers done-for-you podcast editing and production. They have a team of fifteen remote members spread across four continents and they're also responsible for about 40 podcasts on a regular basis. In addition to podcast motor, Craig is also the founder of Castro's podcast hosting and analytics and their goal there is to enable everyone to create their own podcast and share their voice with the world. Castro’s just celebrated second birthday and more than 1,000 customers are on the platform. Hey Craig welcome.

01:06

Craig: Hey Ramesh thanks so much for having me.

01:08

Ramesh: So just a clarification, the Castro’s was your first company and then you started a podcast or is it the other way around?

01:14

Craig: Other way around. Yep so podcast Motor was my first business and it's just over four years old, maybe four and a half years old almost. Castro’s yeah just celebrating our second anniversary you know pretty much right now here in May of 2019.


01:27

Ramesh: So how did you stumble your way into podcasts and podcast motor?

01:32

Craig: Yeah, it's a funny story. So, I think that a lot of the most successful businesses that you hear about are someone that you know the term is like scratch their own itch right. Someone who had first-hand experience of a problem and said, hey if I create a solution for this problem you know it would be valuable for people. Because they have really in-depth the detailed knowledge of exactly what the problem is and that was the case for me with podcasting and podcast motor. I started my own podcast, I guess like four and a half years ago and saw really quickly that wow this is a pain in the neck and takes a lot of time and expertise and skill that I frankly didn't have and I saw that like you know the hours I would spend editing the audio for my podcast probably could be used in a better way doing something else and if that was true for me, as like fledgling entrepreneur at the time, I thought yeah this definitely will be the case for you know folks like yourself and for all of our customers now who are you know successful business people that value their time a lot more than you know whatever company like podcast motor would charge to do all of that work for them to where all they have to do is sit and record an episode like we're doing here today. And stick those files in Dropbox and then magically you know the podcast episode appears in iTunes the next week.

02:55

Ramesh: Honestly that's a fantastic service that you guys are doing for would-be podcasters and then podcasters is like me. I mean it takes so much; it saves us so much time.

03:07

Craig: That's great to hear.

03:08

Ramesh: So, it looks like I have to really start much earlier to understand your entrepreneurial journey. So, you were doing a podcast before you founded podcast motor. Why did you start a podcast? What were you doing at that time?

03:23

Craig: Yeah so, my podcast is called rogue startups and you know it really started just as a way for me to meet people and talk about online business. I didn't have the business at a time really. But was a part of some of these you know online communities that we're talking about all sorts of different entrepreneurship and online business and started interviewing some of these people and that's kind of where the podcast came from and yeah I mean it's, I have to say podcasting, I don't sell you on it, I don't think. But for anyone out there like podcasting is a fantastic way to network. It's a fantastic way to market yourself and your brand and your content and kind of tell people what you're up to and share your expertise. But for a lot of people I think it's even better for networking. Because you know you send me an email, Craig I'd love to have you on my podcast. I'm instantly like blushing. I'm like oh that's so great, Ramesh wants to have me on his podcast. I'm so honored. Like that's a very rare sentiment for a lot of busy businesspeople and you get that pretty much every time when you invite someone on your podcast.

04:34

Ramesh: Not only that, actually I personally learn a lot from these conversations, number one. Number two and then these relationships you know as a networking right, I mean they last long. So, you always had the itch, the entrepreneurial itch can you talk a little bit about it?

04:52

Craig: Yeah, I know absolutely. I'm a hopeless entrepreneur. I think at this point very much unemployable. But this is my third different entrepreneurial venture and I think it really comes from the innate knowledge. But in the back of my head knowing that my time working for a big business is kind of wasted and like my talents and drive and creativity and all those kind of stuff in the context of a big like fortune 100 business where I was working before, just is not the best use of like my time and skill and effort and now I totally see it. You know we have two successful businesses I think and see exactly that like when I put in a unit of effort, a unit of result comes out the other end. Whereas I mean a lot of folks who listen to this podcast or you know I’ve been in the corporate world know that like, you can just spin your wheels and some of these businesses and just get nothing done and get incredibly frustrated and it sucks the life out of you and I just wasn't going to have that happen.

06:02

Ramesh: Exactly I mean in my past life I was talking to engineers, they worked for four years on multiple products and they didn't see a single product out the door. You know it's just very frustrating. That's a killer. So, if you don't mind me asking, what was your background? What were you doing when you were not working for yourself?

06:23

Craig: Yeah totally unrelated to anything that I do now. I was in sales for a medical device company. So, I sold capital equipment, like big equipment to hospitals.

06:35

Ramesh: Oh, I see, okay so that's totally unrelated. All right, so how long did it take for you to actually start the business and then feel comfortable that yes, I can do it.

06:47

Craig: Yeah so, I think that this is suddenly I don't know how much people appreciate the power of the product I service business model. I don't know if you've had anyone else on this show that has talked about it. But in terms of like time to impact and like that the whole concept of like being agile and moving quickly and breaking stuff and figuring out what works, I think the you know productize consulting or productized service whatever you want to call it, may be the best way to go to market quickly, see if there's a need and the traction and you can solve the problem and start making pretty decent money. So, we went from like an idea to our first customer in about three weeks and we were doing like $5,000 of MOR within the first couple of months.

07:37

Ramesh: That's incredible. Actually, that is the whole purpose of my agile an entrepreneur podcast is about making things quicker. You break and then learn and then iterate and keep moving.

07:48

Craig: Yeah, yeah I mean it's like anything that, if you can provide a service, find people that have the problem and you know solve the problem entirely for them, soup-to-nuts where they don't have to do anything is I think like the best business model out there. And you can pivot from there, you can pivot into SAS or you can pivot into consulting or courses or whatever. But all of those things take a ton of time. You know like a service business just doesn't take that much time.

08:16

Ramesh: Yeah very true. So, looking at the other aspects of starting a business, financing you know did you reach out for other external sources for money or did you put your own funds?

08:30

Craig: Yeah, we did. I used my own funds. But it really wasn't very, I didn't need very much at all. I mean you think about to this day podcast motor runs on a single WordPress site with a couple of plugins to handle things like payments. We pay for Dropbox. We pay a lot for Dropbox actually. That’s our biggest expense, because we have tons of files in there at this point. But that's it, so you're like all in where our infrastructure costs are a couple hundred dollars a month and it was less than that when we started. Because we're a little more bare-bones and you can start with just yeah a crappy shared hosting WordPress site and a couple of plugins let you accept payments through stripe and that's all you need and then you can scale up and get fancier from there. But yeah, the idea of like needing funding and stuff like that, now that I'm in a SAS world as well with Castos, I could get that. Like if you really really really want to go mm-hmm all out with a SAS business, just the time and resources that it needs to get like to escape velocity is where things like venture capital come in and make more sense. Just because to build a really good software product these days takes, you might not like this, it takes a year yeah and a ton of people hours and to do that or finance that yourself is risky and scary and I think for some people things like venture capital or some of these alternative financing sources out there makes sense. But for a product I service business, I mean you can do it in a day. I have a buddy Justin McGill from lead fuse, lead fuse is a SAS application now. But it started as a product I service and he had this like 24 hour challenge to go from the idea to having the website done and taking payments and stuff and he did it in 24 hours and so that's just the power of like the product and service model.

10:26

Ramesh: Well that is phenomenal. So yeah actually that's, I think these times are getting shorter with each of the business models. So, from a customer pipeline perspective, do you actively bill your prospect pipeline? How does that work?

10:44

Craig: Yeah so, we are, we're fortunate to have a fair amount of inbound inquiries to the business and so we rely on that a fair amount to grow and maintain our customer base. We also used some paid acquisition strategies to kind of supplement that. But I would say it's more like 70% organic inquiries and 30% paid at this point.

11:10

Ramesh: Okay and then now from a value proposition perspective and how we are differentiating yourself from other competitors, what are your thoughts on that?

11:22

Craig: Yeah this is definitely gotten harder in the last couple of years. I think there's a lot of people that have seen, honestly seen businesses like ours. Because I'm pretty vocal and open about what our business does and how it's doing and you know people probably came in and said, well geez if it doesn't take a lot of time or money, which is fine and so it's taken a bit too to stand out from the crowd now and where we try to sit is to say, we're not the cheapest, we are not the fastest, but we are the best and we're the easiest to work with for you as a business person and so that instantly stratifies out you know tire kickers and people that are just looking for a great deal. Because we charge yeah, I think a very fair amount, but for a really high-quality product that we deliver, we charge like a fair amount. But to you know somebody who has a podcast just talking about like their favorite sports team, that doesn't have sponsors or there's not a business behind it, they would look at you know $500 a month and say you're crazy and that's appropriate. Because they're not like our ideal customer and we're not their ideal solution. So we kind of say like setting price properly automatically kind of eliminates a bunch of bad leads for us and then from there really just try to hone our messaging and the product that we deliver to kind of align with the fact that we are like a pretty premium solution and that's meant for a very like b2b type relationship.

12:59

Ramesh: Yeah that's true. I mean if they don't have a business behind it, probably they can do it themselves and yeah so, they'll price themselves out. Which is probably the right thing for you. In some ways you're firing the bad customers without even getting them on and then having to manage in a different way.

13:16

Craig: Yeah.

13:17

Ramesh: So, on your journey Craig what are the challenges you faced and then how you overcame those challenges?

13:26

Craig: Yeah, I think you know specific to scaling up podcast motor as a privatized service, the most difficult thing was to offload all of the work from my plate. Because at first it was just me. You know I was support and I was the audio editor and I was the show note writer and I posted things to know WordPress. And bit by bit we took and hired people for all of those different roles and that’s the hard part I think of like transitioning the scope and the workflow of a productized service. If you start out doing it all at yourself, it’s great. Because then you know every nook and cranny of the business. The hard part is then you have to go hire and train and create processes and procedures for all of those people to do it, without all of the knowledge you have. Because you're never going to transfer all of the knowledge in your head to anybody else. So, you have to say like we're going to do it this this and this way and this has to be something that basically anyone can follow and so I struggled a lot with that. Because I’m, hate to admit it, I'm not an organized person. So, to get like reall organized about every particular detail is just against my nature. So as by far the hardest thing.

14:48

Ramesh: I mean specially to overcome those challenges you need innate motivation and inspiration. So, what was driving you? Is yourself driving or some other external books or some other people gave you the motivation?

15:04

Craig: Yeah, I think it was really two things. One was I wanted to quit my job and I knew that to quit my job like the business had to get to a certain point to provide for myself and my family. Because I'm not you know this 20-year-old person that goes wants to go live in Bali or something like that. Life and like we you know we need kind of decent money to live on. But the other thing was kind of a serendipitous I guess is that we were growing, and it was a pretty successful business. Almost in spite of me being unorganized and stuff. So, like we had customers coming in and I had to figure it out. Because I didn't want to let my customers down and you know we figured it out. But it was a bit forced in that way that I didn't have an option to say like oh I’ll just offload this when I get a chance. It was like you know we have 15 customers now, can't possibly do all this myself. You know we need product you know different teams on you know groups on the team and delegation and workflow and project management, stuff like that. So, it was a little bit by necessity.

16:12

Ramesh: Okay so I mean you talked about the WordPress and the tools to manage the WordPress and that business aspect of it. But how you as a businessperson, what other tools do you use to manage your life and then maybe work-life balance and manage the business?

16:31

Craig: Yeah, I think, so I’ll take work/life balance first. Because I think it's an interesting concept. I don't, this may be controversial. I know there's some people that to say the same thing. I don't believe in work-life balance as an entrepreneur. Especially a remote online business entrepreneur where you literally can work anywhere. I think you have to just accept the fact that unless you are very diligent about it, your kind of just working all the time and I'm okay with that and my family is okay with that. It's currently 7:50 on a Friday night and we're podcasting and it's cool. My kids are downstairs watching a movie with my wife and I'm up here podcasting with you, which is awesome. Because like this afternoon we went and bought my kids a trampoline and I spent two hours putting the trampoline together. So, it's like if you take a little bit from here you got to give it there and so we have come to be peaceful with that lack of balance.

17:35

Ramesh: That’s is very refreshing Craig.

17:37

Craig: But balance in a way right. I mean it's we make the balance but know that you can't, you can never say like I'm going to work from 9:00 to 4:00 today. Because it's just not feasible, for me at least. Because I'm unorganized or whatever. But I just say I'm going to work like 35 hours this week, I don't really know when it's going to be, but I'm going to get it done and it might be at nights. It might be early in the morning and it might be just during the week like regular work hours like some people. But I don't try to force work-life balance a lot. I just got to do the work when I can and need to and then the life is there around it. So that's like the work-life balance stuff and as far as you know tools and best practices, I’ll talk about two books that I’ve read that had a really big impact on me. One is called profit first, by Mike Michalowicz. But just Google profit first on Amazon or you know entry on Amazon it's the first one to come up. It's absolutely fantastic and the idea is basically like pay yourself first, before you pay your business and take the profit first basically is to say like if you wait for your business to pay you, it will never pay you and streaming podcast motor was a successful business for years before I took any money out of it and that's my fault. Because I didn't say you know like what is Dave Ramsey says like tell your money what to do, don't let you know don't do it the other way around and this is kind of the same type of deal is like and if you make ten thousand dollars, you take five thousand dollars out of that or whatever that number is. So it's probably the first absolution every entrepreneur, every business owner should read it and the other is Traction by Gino Wickman and it is you know he kind of espouses this entrepreneurs operating system idea and is basically like this is how you should run a business and it's not a lot of fluff, it's a really dense book. It's not something you'll read in a day or a week even. But it's the kind of book where like you read a chapter and you set it down and you print the worksheets and you do them and then you implement it and then you read the next chapter and you print out the worksheets and you implement at your business and it's really you know, he's been a business owner, now he's been a consultant for a long time and he knows how kind of small and medium-sized growing businesses should run and it's helped us a lot in how we communicate and set goals and have meetings and all this kind of stuff, it just really, I say it makes me a very grown-up business owner. Because it really is, it runs a business like a business should be run and I think a lot of us entrepreneurs think that, oh man I'm an entrepreneur, I'm going to wear flip-flops and never have meetings and that's cool if you want to have you know kind of a lifestyle business. Which is perfectly fine. But if you want to have like a high growth business, you got to get everybody on the same page, thinking the same way, going towards the same goal and to do that you have to have like effective and efficient communication and this book is really that's what it's all about.

20:52

Ramesh: Well that's great. I have not come across either one of the books. I know about the profit first, only thing that I’ve not read it. Traction is something I need to look at it. Thank You Craig. So, if you were to go back and look at your journey, any things that you think you should have done differently as a piece of advice?

21:12

Craig: Yeah you know I think everyone wants to say oh I would a you know not gone to college and started doing this earlier and stuff, but I think that for me at least a lot of the pain that I saw of like working in the corporate world has formed Who I am today. I think working in the corporate world for a period of time is super helpful for entrepreneurs. Because you can take the best parts of your corporate life and implement them into your business as an entrepreneur. Because if you've never had a quote real job do you just don't know some of the things that you probably should be doing. So, I don't want to say like I wouldn't, I would just you know go right out of high school and start doing this earlier. Maybe I would have started doing this earlier, but I mean I think that it just got accessible and easy in the last five or ten years, certainly five years. Before there I mean there wasn't podcasts and there weren't blogs that we are talking about this a lot and Amazon FBA didn't exist and all kind of stuff where people are making these fantastic businesses now, this didn't exist certainly 10 years ago. The iPhone didn't exist 10 years ago. So, like I think to say I would have started this when I was 18 is kind of folly.

22:28

Ramesh: That's cool Craig. So, one of the last questions is me as an entrepreneur I want to start a business or I have a business, but I want to grow it, so what tips can you offer me? First let's start with somebody wanting to start a business. So, what are going to tell me that I should focus on?

22:48

Craig: Yeah so, I think that, I'm very biased. But I think that looking at the productized service business model as the only type of model that you'll adopt, it is a healthy way to restrict your thinking. Because like before I found podcast motor, I was into all sorts of different stuff and it's just super distracting as you listen you go listen to you know podcasts like this and you hear me on talking about product a service and you hear someone else talking about starting SAS business here, someone else talking about running course, someone else talking about Amazon FBA and you're like, I can do any of those. That's what I did for like a year and that's just like you're just going to beat your head against the wall for a year if you do that. So, I would say productized service business model is extremely fast and effective and you can make a good amount of money by yourself really really quickly. So I'd say stick to the project a service business model and then find an area of the business world that you're knowledgeable in and try to find a service that you can provide by yourself to people and just go up to that and figure out how to make that work and for people that have a business that are looking to scale it, I think it's probably like this the old salesperson in me is that like more money basically solves all of your problems. It's a little like arrogant to say maybe, but like it really does. Like if there's a problem in your business, it can be solved with more money or more people or more automation or whatever. The only headaches I’ve had with business is when business is down, and I think you know I can't provide for my family and that's really stressful. But as long as we have enough money, everything else is pretty much secondary. I agree not how to get more businesses all you need to do really.

24:43

Ramesh: Not only that if you're starting and always have more money that you think you need to actually you know have the business. So fantastic Craig, oh this is a phenomenal advice, very actionable, very practical. I cannot emphasize how much I agree with you on the productized services. The service itself can kill you in terms of the number of hours you put in. But a productized service, you can manage it. Hey Craig, thank you very much, good luck with your business and so now you can join the family and watching the movie.

25:16

Craig: Awesome, thanks very much I appreciate it.

Building a Profitable Online Software Reviews Business with Phil Strazzulla – AEP #19

August 9th, 2019 by
Guest: Phil Strazzulla

​Company / Business name: ​​​​​​ ​​​Select Software Reviews

Phil is the founder of SelectSoftware Reviews where businesses can learn about the best software for their organization. Phil started his career working in venture capital before getting his MBA at Harvard Business School.

Tools / Books / Resources mentioned:

 Tools: Zoom, MixMax, Mailchimp, Google Analytics

Show Notes:

00:56 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Be a trusted advisor for your customers. 

Phil starts off by explaining about his business which is to provide consumable information for businesses to make informed decisions on buying the right business software from the myriad options that are available for them. Phil’s company makes money by partnering with some of the vendors and with paid advertising on the web site.

04:28 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Always start by identifying an ideal customer. Delight that customer first. 

Phil talks about the ideal customer for his business and that is the HR manager of any business with employees between 100 and 1,000. Phil’s aspiration is that the beachhead of the HR customer will gradually lead to other functions in the org.

08:31 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Business will evolve. Don’t sweat over trying to get it right the very first time. 

Phil talks about the origins of his business. His desire to start a company originated in college when he interned at a one-man company and realized the impact he could have. Phil talks about how his business evolved 7 or 8 times since inception and how each iteration made the company a better business.

11:40 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: As an entrepreneur, be prepared to go though lean times. Find strength within. 

Phil talks about the exhilaration of signing up marquee customers in the beginning but how that excitement was worn off when they didn’t renew afterwards. He talks about the learnings such as the tracking the customer interest to get an idea of what is working and what is not. He talks about the pain of going through lean times and watching his classmates shutter their own businesses within 9 to 18 months of starting their businesses. He found strength within to keep going by staying lean.

19:43 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: It’s always a better business model to do something that is already being done in the market faster, cheaper, and better. 

Phil talks about 2 key challenges he faced in running his business. (1) Time management (2) Prioritization. Phil reminisces about few things he could have done better. (1) Not trying to change the behavior of the customer (2) Instead focusing on helping something that is already being done better, faster, cheaper etc.

23:07 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Start with something you know and keep learning and building from there. 

Phil continues talking about the need to start a business in an area that you are familiar with and understanding the customer behavior. Phil learnt the the hard way about HR and how HR managers make buying decisions. Phile also gives inside scoop on few tools he uses: Zoom MixMax (for calendaring), Mailchimp. Phil’s company also relies on freelancers from Upwork and Fiverr.

28:01 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Keep learning and iterating. 

Phil summarizes his learnings in this segment. (1) Try to find the market for your business (2) Keep iterating to find the right model (3) Start with something you know (4) Be realistic about your business journey.

00:02

Ramesh: Hello everyone, welcome to the agile entrepreneur podcast. This is your host Ramesh Dontha. This podcast is about starting and building your own business with purpose, passion, perseverance and possibilities. Today's guest is Phil Strazzulla. So Phil is the founder of select software reviews where businesses can learn about the best software for the organization. Phil started his career working at in venture capital before getting his MBA at Harvard Business School. Hi Phil welcome.

00:41

Phil: Hey Ramesh, thanks a lot for having me on.

00:44

Ramesh: It's great to have you here. So Phil so if you could start off by explaining what your business is about and secondly your business model, how you make money.

00:56

Phil: Yeah sure, so my business is sort of riding the various waves of software sort of being ubiquitous in our lives and specifically in businesses on the best companies using different tools to accelerate their growth, hire the right people etc. etc. as well as the ease to build software companies. So this has been really on the backs of things like AWS, Ruby on Rails, all these different API’s that allow you to leverage things like you know Tulio's, SMS capabilities, send birds emails etc. to quickly build solutions that are Enterprise ready. That means there are so many different options out there for businesses and so when you're a business and you're looking at which software tools to use, it can be challenging. There are lots of pieces of conflicting and many times underwhelming advice out there and so our goal is to have really in-depth research that helps people figure out what's the right solution for my business, for my specific need. Maybe it's a new CRM, maybe it's payroll software. Whatever the case maybe we to give you in really consumable information, the right advice so you can quickly and competently buy the right software to help grow your business. We do it with free online guides that outline everything you need to know about a given category. Our business makes money is by partnering with some of the vendors to do things like pay per click advertising.

02:39

Ramesh: So how do you make money?

02:41

Phil: We make money specifically by having some of the different vendors that are featured on our website, do sponsored listings similar to Google's revenue model actually. It gets sort of more visibility; they're paying to essentially boost their profile on the site and that's how the business makes money and partners with the vendors.

03:05

Ramesh: Do you charge membership fees for your audience, people who want to come on your side and get a select set of reviews or something like that?

03:13

Phil: No it's totally free and open and there's a couple reasons for that. One is a sort of philosophical one where the North Star of our business is to help businesses buy the right tools to continue to grow and the best way to do that is to offer the content for free. There is also a business reason for it. Which is the majority of our traffic coming through search engine optimization and putting that Information behind some sort of sign up or paywall means that Google is not going to index and rank it. Which would drastically decrease the amount of people that discover it and are able to utilize our content.

03:53

Ramesh: So interestingly actually I interviewed another gentleman who is a consumer product reviewer. So he runs a similar one, a consumer product reviews and they say they're anti TV in the way that they produce their reviews and one of the things that interestingly what he told me is that they have zeroed in on their customer who the ideal avatar so to say, right. So it's a 34-year-old male. So likewise do you have your ideal customers? Who are target audience I should say, who come under this?

04:28

Phil: Yeah, I think for anybody's starting a business, it really helps especially when you first get started to focus on one specific customer. It's you know one of these sort of siren calls of any business as you want to serve everybody right. But it's a disaster and so for us it is the head of HR at a small to medium size business. So anywhere from like a hundred to a thousand employees’ sort of thing who is buying these tools for the organization. So any sort of HR tech, or future work or tech sort of stuff that relates the applicant tracking systems, chat box for recruiting, performance management etc. etc. So that's sort of like our beachhead market that we've focused in on with aspirations of eventually when we're ready going into other parts of the organization and selling to you know the VP of Finance, the VP of you name it.

05:25

Ramesh: So do you specialize in HR human resources and talent management related software reviews?

05:32

Phil: Exactly.

05:33

Ramesh: Okay so does it prevent you from going into other segments of the market, whether it's a sales or other area. So is that your plan?

05:44

Phil: Yeah, I don't think it prevents us, our name probably implies our aspirations. Which is to eventually get into these other markets. We started with HR for a couple of reasons. One, that's sort of my background and my network. The last couple years I spent building this other company called next wave hire. Which is an HR tool that powers career websites and basically helps companies use inbound marketing to recruit. So it's just easier for us to start there. We've got the connections; we understand the buyer at a pretty deep level. We understand the various software solutions out there. At least you know at an elementary level and the goal is to once we sort of own that category to move into these other parts of the organization that we think also experience the pain of trying to figure out these really vast and complicated vendor ecosystems. You know anything from Devox to sales and marketing.

06:44

Ramesh: Excellent. So Phil now let's segway a little bit into you as a person on your own journey. So I mean you graduated from Harvard Business School and then you decided to start this company right after the school or did you work somewhere? If you could just help us understand your journey.

07:01

Phil: Yeah, so I started basically right out of the gate. I think like many people who start businesses I sort of had this like burning probably irrational desire to start a business. I think you know most rational thing probably would have been to go back into the venture capital world for a bit, make some more money, build my network etc. etc. or maybe join another sort of fast-growing company as you know a functional leader like heading up marketing or whatever to learn from another entrepreneur. But I think as probably many of the people listening out there can relate to, I just really wanted to start a business and that desire really started when I was in college. I interned at this essentially one-person company and just kind of got addicted to like the impact that I could have, the sort of chance to exercise my creativity, my analytical skill set and just see the results of everything that I was doing in real time and focus on the stuff that actually mattered. You know maybe having a boss that sends you down a couple rabbit holes and you're not super jazzed about how you're spending your day.

08:11

Ramesh: So how long ago was this?

08:13

Phil: It was just about five years ago.

08:18

Ramesh: Fantastic so the five years ago you said hey I’ll put my name on a shingle and then start the business and then you had prior background little bit in the HR side. How long did it take actually to set up the company and then get the operations going?

08:31

Phil: Yeah, so we definitely took like the Lean Startup approach to things where you know we probably had a website on like day two sort of thing and we're just like testing you know things around user engagement and what we really viewed is like the key hypotheses that had to play out in order to build a business and as we sort of went through that process, the company evolved probably like seven or eight times and so the current instantiation of the business probably, it probably took us like three years to get there. We kind of had these like other kind of suboptimal businesses prior that allowed us to you know pay our rent and survive and all that stuff, but the writing was on the wall just by being like pretty rigorous of no metrics that mattered that like you know those things were not sustainable models and so we just sort of like got going as soon as humanly possible, like literally like hey we've got this idea, let's start executing on it, let's start testing things and like the cheapest meanest way possible. Excuse me and then sort of just evolved and iterated from there and honestly evolved into a much much different business. But glad that we went on that journey. Because it allows us to have a nice profitable software company.

09:54

Ramesh: Good I mean I keep hearing that thread evolve like you evolved the business models. So how long did it take for you to you know get onto the path that you're on now?

10:06

Phil: So the path that I'm on now is quite recent. So I basically built this company out of the gate called next wave hire for four and a half years or so and then a couple of months ago started select software really from interacting with customers at next wave, understanding all the problems that they had buying software, understanding vendor landscapes, getting internal buy-in like all these things that functional leaders struggle with when they're trying to accomplish their goals, specifically by partnering with software vendors and other b2b tools. So I think it's like anything in life, it's funny I just talked to this woman who's probably like in her late 50s yesterday and she's the CEO of a company, she's leaving. She's going to do something else. She's going to be actually a different sort of leader within a different type of company. It's kind of funny to me how like these journeys they never stop changing. Like there are very few people that find the thing that they're going to do and do it for the next couple of decades until they retire. Well that like your journey through life and especially as an entrepreneur is continuously evolving. Especially in the world that we live in which is changing so quickly due to technology and globalization and all this different stuff. Which makes it exciting, maybe a little bit scary. But makes it a lot more fun than just doing the same thing day after day.

11:29

Ramesh: That's interesting Phil. So what was a trough of your journey? Like when was where you said am, I doing the right thing, what the hell am I doing here?

11:40

Phil: Yeah, I think honestly those things happen like on a frequent basis. I think especially when you're starting something like every day there's ups and downs and I think the highs can be super high you can feel like you're on drugs and the lows can be just as low and are extrapolating that success or failure like 10 years in the future and so for anybody out there starting off, it's super normal to feel that way and you probably hear this from a lot of entrepreneurs. Looking back on sort of like the journey like one of the lowest points for us at next wave was the first iteration of our business that really started charging customers, we got out of the gate with a couple of really really marquee brand names and we like you know through the roof we were so excited and then we had like 95% churn after a year on that product. Because it looked good in a PowerPoint, we could sell it to companies. We could get the money. But there were just fundamental things we didn't understand about our buyer that made it so that the actual adoption of our product was extremely low and when you know people buy something, they don't use it, they're not going to renew it the next year. So we still have like, it's kind of funny we have this like one customer from that iteration that like just every year sends us a check and we like laugh about it, might go out to dinner sort of things like celebrate it. But for the most part like we you know the first three months of that business we like sold like huge huge brands and we were like, oh my god this is it. And then it probably made it that much worse that people weren't using the product and eventually we're like you know we couldn't even get them back on the phone when it came time for renewals and at that point it was time to essentially shut that down and something else. We you know kept the same entity, the same cap table and all that stuff. Like it was kind of the same business. But we basically drastically pivoted in order to survive and find something that was more viable.

13:58

Ramesh: Interesting. So what kept you going during those lean times? What's your source of inspiration?

14:04

Phil: I have no idea. I think it's like something internal a little bit that like you're just sort of you've got like you've got kind of got that fire; you get excited about building things about solving problems. You have the optimism to think that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Even though perhaps you know things seem bleak in many cases and those are the people when I look at like the cohort of people that started businesses out of my class at HBS, the vast majority of those people shut things down after 9 to 18 months sort of thing and then there was probably like three or four of us who can deal with the pain, can just sort of like put that in perspective and continue to somewhat objectively analyze their chances of success and continue to plod forward. It's funny now that I'm thinking about it like most of us had some sort of like painful athletic background. Like I think a lot of like track stars or entrepreneurs, I was a wrestler you know. I'm used to like dealing with the pain of like cutting weight and like not eating and like training really hard to like to accomplish a goal. A lot of the same sort of like chemical stimulus from entrepreneurship as I did wrestle and so maybe there's some sort of quarterly in there. But I think a lot of it's just sorts of like you're either got that personality and some of these things are augmented by support system by being thoughtful about like your lifestyle and sleep habits and exercise and diet and all that stuff. But I think a lot of it it's kind of like you got it, or you don't.

15:54

Ramesh: So I mean let's talk a little bit about the finance in your business. Did you need a lot of money to get the business going? How did you manage that?

16:05

Phil: Yeah, we did raise a small angel round. It was mostly people that I had worked with previously with a couple of like ex college roommate sort of situations as well. It was just enough to pay we enough to pay rent and live very frugally. So that we could build a product and iterate enough to get to a point where we had cash coming in the business. We've always been super lean. It's sort of again one of those mentalities that I think you either are more the growth crazy you know go for the unicorn mindset or you're more sort of this like bootstrapped cash flow focus sort of person. I'm like pretty cheap in my life generally speaking and I'm always super focused on cash flow. Because I think that's at the end of the day what makes a valuable business and what makes an actual business versus you know something that's being subsidized by venture investment or something like that. So we didn't raise money ever at that, we did some creative things to increase our cash flow. One of the things that you can do which is huge is to collect money up front for a contract. Many times your customer doesn't care if they pay you monthly or quarterly or annually and so that's been the main thing that's sort of like kept us afloat and then in my new business, I’ve sort of developed enough expertise to be a moderately paid consultant to various businesses out there who just sort of know me through the content that I do, through being in this space. They'll hire me to do stuff like speaking or strategy work. Which is enough to sort of fund the operations in the short term and then I’ve got a really strong focus on generating cash flow from customers that will fund the business.

17:59

Ramesh: So it looks like you're trying to find ways to differentiate you and your business. Like in your own words I mean how what do you think you're doing to differentiate yourself and what is your differentiation?

18:14

Phil: As a business or as an individual?

18:15

Ramesh: As a business

18:17

Phil: Yeah so, I think as a business for select software, it has to be about putting the user first and not the customer. Which might be a little bit counterintuitive. You always say you know put the customer first blah blah blah. But in this case if we do a really good job of creating high quality useful unbiased content that allows businesses to buy the right software, we're going to be okay and it's actually really really an analogous to Google's business right? Google search engine spend all of their time trying to be the best unbiased search engine and therefore people come back and if they weren't the best you go somewhere else and they wouldn't have a business. But because they are so good, because their algorithm is all about serving up the right content, getting you the answers that you need, you keep coming back and then some percentage of us click on those ads and that's how they make 30 billion dollars a year. For us it's the exact same thing. Just create an amazing awesome content, which is differentiated in this market. Most of the people that we are competing against they're doing sketchy stuff, they're not putting the user first, they're putting their customer first and I think that over time this philosophy will win out.

19:35

Ramesh: So Phil what are the challenges that you're facing in the day-to-day of running of your business?

19:43

Phil: I think one of them is time. You know you can only work so many productive hours. There's a you know I used to my first job out of college I worked as an investment banking analyst and I used to literally work two hours a week. There were many times where I would work from 8:30 a.m. Until one o'clock in the morning two days later. You know like 40 hours straight, never going home. Not even really taking breaks to eat and you know the last like 20 hours of that I probably got nothing done, I was probably even negative and so I’ve sort of learned from that and realized that look I can work incredibly efficiently for like 55,60 hours a week. But of course I'm only one person and there's so much to get done in a startup. Especially when you're talking about building content and building links of that content and doing all this online marketing stuff that a lot of it's just like execution and takes time and so that's one of the biggest bottlenecks for us right now. Especially on a day to day basis, like how do I prioritize and how do I make sure that I'm efficient. You know turning off the cellphone, closing my email tabs and just focusing on a task for 45 or 50 minutes and just doing as good a job as I can.

21:03

Ramesh: Yeah actually that comes across you know time management is the number one challenge and of course apart from cash flow management and other things. So looking at your own journey over the last five years or so, what are the things that you think you should have done differently and then as a piece of advice, what you advise to other entrepreneurs to do differently based on journey?

21:51

Phil: Yeah, I think there's probably a million things I could have done differently. With hindsight in terms of generalizable advice I think that the key to any new business is finding product market fit. For us, our first couple of iterations of our business and even on this led to some extent the last iteration of next wave is trying to do something drastically different. We're trying to change the behavior in the buying cycle as well as the using of the software of our customer and that is so incredibly challenging. If you look at the most successful businesses, they are all just doing something that is already being done, better, cheaper faster. So Uber is like taxis, which is a huge market. Everybody takes taxis, except it's better, cheaper, faster. There's just like a million examples of this in the recruiting space in our b2c wise as well our consumer lives and so I think like for me if I could go back in time I would really encourage myself to look at ideas that were just better, cheaper, faster relative to something where I'm like you know creating this new market. Which also takes tremendous amount of capital and time. Most companies that do that they raise a ton of money and many of them fail. So I think that's a really good thing to keep in mind.

23:00

Ramesh: So basically just to summarize at that point, you're saying go after the proven market and do it better.

23:07

Phil: Exactly. Yeah, so don't try to like change someone's behavior. Just take something that they're already doing, give it more efficient. Like that's key to every single, like even if you think about something that you think it was really innovative, like maybe you think Uber is really innovative, but it's not. It's just making the taxi experience much better. So I think that's a big key, I think the other is when we started off, I didn't know anything about HR and that really hurt us the first like two years and it took that long to really understand our buyer. I think I probably should have spent more time just like working next to HR people and you know hearing what they talk about, hearing how they think about tools and basically everything in life. That would have been much, would have saved us a lot of pain and I mentioned earlier are like 95 percent turn on that original product, it was because we didn't understand the behavior of HR people. We built it for people like us who like we're super tech savvy and we are super execution focused and like just grew up in a different era and for the most part that was not our customer and that's why that product failed. It's really understanding your customer, if you're doing b2c build something for yourself or somebody who like is your spouse or best friend. If you're doing b2b really understand who you're selling to, why they're going to buy this and hopefully again build it for yourself.

24:35

Ramesh: So Phil what are the tools that you use in your business that you rely on extensively?

24:41

Phil: Zoom, mix max, MailChimp.

24:48

Ramesh: What do you use the mix max for?

24:51

Phil: Mix max for booking meeting. So there’s always back and forth as well as you can send some like email campaigns through that like no merge type stuff, through plain text email. Which I think converts much higher than the HTML emails. But I did mention we do use MailChimp that's more for like the newsletter type of stuff. A variety of CMS's. So WordPress, Squarespace to build web pages. Of course Google Analytics, Google tag manager, hot jars great for understanding the behavior on your website and you keep Maps you can record people on your website. I use a lot of like Excel to understand the data, like pulling out the data from these different systems and trying to figure out like how to you know actually convert people down the funnel sort of thing and then I don't know if I mentioned or not, but zoom. We use Zoom every single day.

25:44

Ramesh: That's right. Do you outsource any parts of your business?

25:52

Phil: Yeah, we do, and we use Upwork to find really phenomenal freelancers. Especially those abroad. I've also used Fiverr and Fiverr is going public. I'm actually a shareholder in Fiverr, maybe I should mention that. But that's a great way to get like you know willows designed or video intros or whatever. So those sorts of marketplaces can really help you feel skills as well as time gaps that you might not have in usually really cost-effective ways.

26:20

Ramesh: Yeah actually so those are the I think top mentioned areas. So towards the end of this podcast Phil, I want to understand the Phil as a person. Who are you? What drives you? What kinds of interests you have in life?

26:37

Phil: Great question. I think that in no particular order the things that are important to me are personal growth and learning. My relationships with friends and family. I love to do things that are active and athletic. Like get out and play stuff. I love to see new places. Yeah, I guess I'm just sort of like a voracious sort of learner. Which is interesting as I was never a great like that great of a student. Like you're probably like oh you went to HBS, I think that was more of like a working experience sort of thing that got me in. But yeah, I just love to learn new stuff and I love to teach stuff. Which is kind of why I select offers like the perfect business for me. I am you know learning about these different software landscapes and then trying to teach the relevant points to the end buyers. Who the information is really valuable to and I just love to continue to learn about myself? You know big into meditation, yoga, introspection and journaling since I was in fifth grade and the other thing I’ve been doing since I was a kid is investing. I just love sort of thinking about the world through a finance lens. Always been like kind of a number’s person.

27:53

Ramesh: Excellent. So Phil any areas that we did not touch in this podcast so far? Anything that you want to share?

28:01

Phil: I don't think so. I mean I think that if somebody is starting a business, it's a tremendous journey. You're certainly going to learn a lot about yourself. Probably your market, different skill sets, you're going to network and you're going to have lots of options. I think a lot people are afraid to start a business. Because they're like oh my gosh if I do this thing and I fail, I'm totally screwed. It's not the case whatsoever. Like if you start a business and it doesn't work out, people love that experience and it could be as company like Google, could be a company in your space that you were trying to do a business development relationship with. It didn't work out, but you impress the person who's your contact and they're dying to hire you. Because they're just so impressed with what you're trying to do and they understand that the majority of businesses fail and they fail for reasons, many times that are beyond your control. Just like they succeed for many times reasons that are beyond your control. Just finding product market fit at the right time. It's not a coincidence that even like you know Walmart and Kmart were all started in the same year. You know like New Balance and Nike were started the same year. Like all these trends happen and these businesses start, and they succeed. And part of its due to the individual, a lot of it's due to the market and so just try to enjoy the journey, don't let the lows get you down too much. Be analytical and rigorous about your thinking. Don't delude yourself either way into optimism or pessimism and know that there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Whether it's a you know profitable, successful, business. Whether it's a unicorn or whether it's just learning about yourself and getting a cool job afterwards.

29:42

Ramesh: Excellent advice Phil. Thank you very much and by the way I should mention your blog, www.philstrazulla.com. I spent some time going through that. It's a very, it’s a nice blog actually. I like it. I mean especially some of the articles about your investing and then about the views that you had and one of the sites, it's good. I like it.

30:06

Phil: Thanks, yeah thanks for checking it out.

30:08

Ramesh: Yeah yeah, hey Phil thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate it. So the good luck on your journey and to greater heights.

30:15

Phil: Thanks Ramesh. I appreciate it, good luck to everybody out there listening.

Bridging Social responsibility and profitability with Transformpreneur and bestselling author Shel Horowitz – AEP # 18

July 19th, 2019 by
Guest: Shel Horowitz

​Company / Business name: ​​​​​​ ​​​Going Beyond Sustainability DOT COM.

For over a decade, Shel Horowitz, “The Transformpreneur,” has shown businesses how to thrive by doing the right thing. Shel shows how not just to go green AND market green affordably and effectively–but how business can thrive by transforming society: turning hunger and poverty into sufficiency, war into peace, and catastrophic climate change into planetary balance. Shel is a consultant, international speaker and TEDx Talker, transformational business consultant, and the multiple-award-winning, bestselling author of ten books, most recently Guerrilla Marketing to Heal the World (his second Guerrilla book with Guerrilla Marketing founder Jay Conrad Levinson).

Show Notes:

01:43 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Your passion leads the way to your business. Be passionate. 

Shel talks about the beginnings where he and his wife started a movement in their local rural community to stop a private developer from building a large development against environmentalists’ concerns. He used business principles and marketing to make the movement effective.

06:00 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Environmentally sustainable business and a profitable business don’t have to be separate things.

Shel talks about how he coaches business owners to make money and save money while transforming their business into a sustainable business. He mentions some great examples like Patagonia, Ben & Jerrys, Rocky Mountain Institute which have been very successful in being a sustainable business while making profits.

10:00 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Keep growing your business by finding new growth areas. Always think of possibilities. 

Shel talks about how he started as a freelance magazine writer and started a term paper typing service which grew into resume prep service business. That business evolved into Press Releases and Marketing copy writing business.

14:39 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Use variety of techniques to build your customer pipeline: Networking, blogging, speaking.

Shel talks about the customer pipeline building process. He uses a combination of techniques such as a gratitude journal on Facebook, blog posts, speaking engagements etc. Many of his clients are either referrals or people who found him through organic google searches. Sometimes, he prospects by going to networking events.

21:50 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Be proactive about having a social impact with your business. 

Shel talks about being proactive to have a social impact with their business. He says it is just a matter of time that customers will ask about your business impact on the society, so be prepared. Shel also advises that it is not difficult to be profitable while having a wider social impact.

27:56 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Focus on costs while building a business. Prioritize customer engagement and interactions.

Shel gives advice to would be entrepreneurs that they should have a razor focus on cost savings in startup mode. Also, outsource where it is possible economically so you can focus on priority items. Keep your customer engagements very personable and engage with them so they can be repeat customers.

00:02

Ramesh: Hello everyone welcomes to the agile entrepreneur podcast. This is your host Ramesh Dontha. This podcast is about starting and building your own business with purpose, passion, perseverance and possibilities. Today I have a guest with a very interesting and inspiring bike background, Shel Horowitz. For over a decade Shel Horowitz, the transformpreneur has shown businesses how to thrive by doing the right thing. Shel is a consultant, international speaker and TEDx talker, transformational business consultant and the multiple award-winning best-selling author of 10 books most recently guerilla marketing to heal the world and this is by the way second gorilla book, with guerrilla marketing founder Jay Conrad Levinson another hero of mine. So www.goingbeyondsustainability.com is his company and then website. Hey Shel welcome.

01:08

Shel: Thank you Ramesh it's great to be here with you, shukriya.

01:11

Ramesh: Shukriya. So, you are the guy who goes to companies and tells them, hey you don't have to choose between sustainability doing the right thing versus profitability.

01:22

Shel: Yeah and I even take it farther than that. Because sustainability is not in my opinion enough. Sustainability is keeping things where they are, and I want to make them better. So, I use the term regenerativity and that's why my company is called going beyond sustainability.

01:37

Ramesh: So how did you transform yourself into a transformpreneur?

01:43

Shel: It was a long slow process. Really, I mean it has roots going back to the 1970s. But the big thing that really shifted me was in 1999 I live in a rural community on a dairy farm right by a mountain, that mountain is a state park that always wins the award in the local newspaper reader Paul for best place to take an out-of-town visitor. Because you can see, oh probably well over a hundred kilometers in every direction on a clear day and so the mountain next to that was privately-owned and a developer said that that was where he was going to put 40 large trophy homes and while all the experts were saying, this is terrible, but there's nothing we can do. My wife and I organized a movement, stopped it, got huge community support. I thought it would take us five years. We did it in a year and a month, 13 months. So that success which used everything I knew not only about community organizing, but also from my long career in marketing, that success had me looking at well if I did so well bringing marketing principles into the community organizing activists side of my work, what would happen if I brought the activism more into the marketing side? So, after some years of evolving through this, I came up with this idea, first it started looking at business ethics and green principles of success drivers. But it kept getting deeper and deeper and deeper and finally about five years ago, I had the Epiphany that I could really actually play a role in reconfiguring the business culture to do good in the world and to show business that doing good is good for the bottom line.

03:22

Ramesh: So, what is your approach? So, in general right so the popular myth is that hey you know if you invest in sustainable environmental friendlies, it's down the drain, it's not really profitable. So, what is your pitch?

03:36

Shel: Well my pitch is let's start with the things that are highly profitable. Let's face it, when you're talking about sustainability or regenerativity, you're talking about using resources more wisely. I don't think I’ve ever met a single business owner who loved spending money to have their waste shipped out and processed somewhere. Who loved paying enormous high electric bills or fossil fuel bills for powering their business. They all would love to save money in those areas. So, I look at how can they save money and how can they make money and those are two halves of the same situation really. Because they both mean more dollars in the bottom line, a greater ratio of expenses to profits and these are things that every business owner wants. So just something as simple as taking rope caulk and going around and in places where your facility is leaking huge amounts of air, close those up put in you know when you go to the hardware store and the baby department, they have those little safety outlet protectors, just little pieces of plastic that slip in to an electrical outlet, they happen to be extremely effective also for blocking air transfer of cold or hot air inside and out, so that your utility bills go down. It is something that simple. You can look at the processes, there's a man I have enormous respect for  Lovins and I profile him in the book. His consultancy, the Rocky Mountain Institute found a factory that was making carpets and I believe China and they looked at how they were making the carpets and they looked at one particular process that involved complicated piping with lots of twists and turns, they widen the pipes, they straightened them, they were able to remove a lot of moving parts and they were able to save 92 percent of the energy that was being used in that process. So, 92 hundred of the portion of the energy bill that was funding that process will became revenue Base, found money. So, something as simple as that can make enormous differences and then on the other side one of the things about selling things that make the world better is that people like to do business with you, people like to write about you and feature you in their newspapers or on their podcasts or all sorts of other places. People like to form joint ventures with you, because they see you is helping the world. So, there's a huge huge marketing impact. Something that nobody would have done, and Patagonia put out an ad saying don't buy this jacket and basically the copy in the ad was talking about, how well yeah if your jackets worn out, fine buy it. But if you're just going to have it sit in your closet, use those resources for something else. It was a really gutsy thing to do and they paid off very very well for them, they are extremely successful.

06:40

Ramesh: very very successful.

06:40

Shel: Yeah you look at a company like Ben & Jerry's, what kind of crazy people would have suspected that two guys with no experience making ice cream, with no experience for that matter isn't is could make a success of a venture like that in Burlington Vermont. I mean it's not New York City, it's not LA, it's not Chicago, it’s you know it's Vermont and I would posit that the reason that they continuously have 40 to 45 percent market share of super premium ice cream is specifically because you cannot go three inches into that company without finding something they're doing to make the world better. Whether it's hiring people with developmental disabilities to work in their scoop shops or contracting their brownie baking to Greystone bakery, which hires ex-addicts and ex-felons and people like that to the funding of solar festivals around the country. It's an amazing company and they're now owned by Unilever and interestingly enough, they have maintained operational independence as part of the very clever buy sell agreement that they had, and they were already a B Corp certified company. One of the very first when they were bought out and that is trickling up and Unilever which is this massive massive consumer products company that with millions, I don't know millions, but dozens and dozens of brands in all over the world might become a B Corp. They were seriously working on this. Because that percolated up from Ben & Jerry's. So, we are seeing that change can come from within if things are structured properly.

08:18

Ramesh: I am sorry, I don't know about the B Corp, what is a B Corp?

08:21

Shel: Oh, it's short for benefit corporation and it's a legal structure that allows businesses to be concerned about other things that short-term bottom line, which normal corporations are legally required to put that above all other interests. You could still have bottom-line profit, but often that the payback might be longer and you're not going to have it in the next quarter. So, by looking long-term, by looking at the much more holistic picture maybe twenty years ago people came up with a legal structure that allows this. It's very exciting stuff.

08:50

Ramesh: So now Shel let's talk about the Shel the entrepreneurs, so did you always have this entrepreneurial spirit in you or this opportunity of a community organizing presented itself for you to form your own company?

09:04

Shel: Oh, I’ve been in business since 1981. I was, how old was I when I started that? I was 24 when I started my business and it was a difficult time for me personally and financially. I had just relocated, I had very low savings. I was having trouble finding work and I had tried a couple of times to start a business even earlier than that and had not been successful. So, I figured okay I’ll go into, the truth is that make a crappy employee. I'm far too headstrong, I'm far too looking at the big picture. I'm not interested in the office politics. So, I thought well I had been in my one and only corporate job and gotten fired from it in 1978 and I'd kind of done odd jobs from 1978 to moving up to Western Massachusetts where I still live.

09:54

Ramesh: Shel that looks like a good quote. If you're a crappy employee start your own company.

10:00

Shel: Sure, so I decided that I was going to try a career as a freelance magazine newspaper writer and while I was waiting for that to take off I started a term paper typing service. I live in an academic area, this was in the pre-personal computer era. So, a lot of people needed papers to be typed. I think I discovered that many of those people also needed resumes written and that was something that I was good at. Because having struggled with my own very at that time checkered career history and having written seven different versions of my own resume, that I had ideas about how to make people look good on paper and without lying really make them shine out in a crowded marketplace. So that became my bread and butter for a number of years and that evolved into doing marketing for small business. Which I have you know things like writing press releases and later when the web came out wearing web pages, not designing them, good god I don't do that. Yeah definitely copy and then from that into the sort of the marketing strategy, the overall marketing planning and what makes sense for your business, where can you go to take advantage of the really wonderful low cost no cost high return marketing avenues such as forming partnerships with people who already reach your core audience or getting exposure in the media or as it came into being, I’ve been on social media a ridiculously long time. I started on social media as it existed back then in 1995. So, the obviously it was before there was such a thing as Facebook or even LinkedIn. But it did exist and actually was very good for my business to be participating in an email discussion list which at the time were really the core of social media online. So, it's been a long journey with many zigs and zags. But always ever iteration has been a little bit more focused on what I really want to do in the world, what I feel like I was put here to do Ramesh.

12:01

Ramesh: So, Shel actually you have a very interesting background because your business evolved. You started with the turn papers, went into resume writing and then into marketing plan. So, it is not that, it's a completely different business. But you kept adding to your strengths and kept building the business I mean as it evolved.

12:22

Shel: Yes, and it's cumulative other than I haven't yet from paper in more than 20 years now, I think 1990 was the last one. I wrote like three resumes last month you know I still do that. It's not a big part of my work anymore. But I still do that, and I still write press releases and I still write book cover copy and all those things that I’ve been doing all along, I just keep adding new. But at the same time, I'm really looking much more strategically at what kind of impact I can have in the business culture and that's really only in the last few years.

12:52

Ramesh: You know that's actually goes back to what I think about entrepreneurs right. So, you said cumulative right, it's always you keep looking for the possibilities. So, term paper writing you know provided you the possibility.

13:07

Shel: Oh, I never wrote term papers, let me get that clear that I would consider unethical. I would type them, but they need to write them. I will write pretty much anything else for somebody but not something they're getting a grade on.

13:19

Ramesh: Yeah okay so its cumulative. So then from there so you added something, so you kept looking for the possibilities of you know and then you also added your purpose and your passion. Like in the sense like what is, why am I here, uncertain what should I do. So, it's a different way of looking at things. Because other people I talk to they just quit the job and then they went into it you know either totally different business or something like that.

13:45

Shel: Yeah and again when I started this I saw myself as doing it temporarily and in fact I did publish 87 articles the first year that I was in business. But I made all of two thousand dollars from those 87 articles, money just wasn't there, and it was so much head-banging and I decided it would be much easier to write for business clients and individual clients than for magazines and newspapers. So that was something I totally didn't expect and sometimes also sometimes my clients have kind of pushed me hard into a different direction. The whole side of my business involving a book shepherding and consulting with people who would like to be published authors was something basically my clients started demanding of me. So, after holding them off for about a year, I decided okay why not and I'm very glad I did.

14:29

Ramesh: That's good. So now let's talk about your business. How do you find your customers? Do they come to you or you go after them, how do you find them?

14:39

Shel: Some of each. There's a lot of range. Sometimes people will read a book or an article that I have either written or been quoted in or they will read a book, sorry they would hear me speak either over the internet as we're doing now or in a live audience. They will get a referral from someone. They will for the resume clients, they will actually look me up in Google search for resume writers near me or something like that. A lot of the book shepherding clients in particular are referral. Sometimes I go prospecting, I went to a networking meeting and I networked afterwards with like six of the people. I met one has become a client, two more I think will become clients and that was just from one meeting. So, everything is a little different because I do what the Brits call bespoke, everything I do is a little different for each person. I don't have cookie cutter stuff. So, there's a lot of attraction in that for people who are not exactly sure what pieces of my skill set that they need, but I can help them think it through and it's wonderful. I feel so happy, so lucky that I get to do what I do and be paid to write and to think and to speak and to talk to people on the phone. It's like wow how did I manage that? I am a person who focuses a lot on gratitude, I actually every single day since March of 2018 I have been posting a gratitude journal on Facebook for whoever in the world wants to see it and that has changed me in some very interesting ways.

16:20

Ramesh: Actually, I heard the gratitude journal from many entrepreneurs, they maintain them for themselves. Actually, they write this gratitude notes to other people they help them kind of stuff, that is very interesting.

16:35

Shel: But putting it out there for the public to see I think is a different level. I had a gratitude practice informally for many years. But this I find that it's really sharing it having to go through my day looking for things that I'm going to say, oh I'm grateful for that later when I write about is really interesting.

16:53

Ramesh: So, Shel look at your company, the things that you do. So, you have a resume writing, you have a copy, you have multiple areas that you could focus on. So, when like for example in the next month, which areas are you going to get your customers from? Like is it a sustainability side of the world or resume, how do you go about that process?

17:15

Shel: Well it's really who's finding me. I had a client today show up with a PayPal order for an hour of consulting and this is very unusual, because I have no idea why they found me, and they chose to work with me. So, the first thing I did was write a few questions about what they're looking for in the assignment and also how they chose to work with me. So that'll be really useful information for me. Because it's really rare for that to happen. To buy a book yes, but without any dialogue with me first to become a client, that's rare. So right now, the book shepherding piece is very big. Because certain things like there is a seasonal event once a year called Book Expo America that will be happening very shortly. So, my book clients are all right now very active in helping me help them explore the options for them and the opportunities for them. I have in mind for this summer to put out a lot of energy into really finding more clients in this incredibly wonderful work about helping business find their real purpose and helping business do make a difference in the world. That's really where my heart lies, and I am hoping to get to the point where that as most if not all of my business. But meanwhile I will enjoy the diversity of what falls into my lap.

18:38

Ramesh: So how do you manage your pipeline? Like how do you plan the next month or two with the diverse set of customers?

18:48

Shel: Well I'm always looking for opportunities to touch base with them and say this is coming up, is this something you're interested in exploring or when I was on your website doing the last thing you asked me to, I noticed that this is something that we could fix and make it much better very easily, is that something you'd like to do? So, I take a fairly proactive role with my existing clients and I also, because every day is different and because that's the nice thing about that as I can't get bored. Whether I'm going to be, what I'm going to be doing. Whether I'm going to be helping somebody think through their startup in solar LED lamps or I’ve got a client in the health and wellness space, who owns a float center and I see with my broad-brush definition of helping the world, I see the work he's doing is helping the world. So, I figure that he fits right into that. I'm one of the people that I think is going to become a client is of all things a genealogist. So, it's fun. I think for me the sweet spot is smallish businesses that don't have their own in-house sustainability coordinator that are trying to do the right thing, that are maybe even started as a social venture, but they haven't quite figured out all the pieces yet and also of course I love to speak. I have never been one of those people that's terrified of public speaking thrive on it and I would like to see myself as influencing people by speaking to them and I certainly feel like I’ve had that effect in the past when my work was a little less ambitious in terms of the impact on the world. When I started talking about business ethics in 2002, it was not fashionable, there was a whole lot of scandals at that time on WorldCom, bunch of others and for me to go out there and say business ethics is a success principle was kind of revolutionary at the time. Now it's fairly much an accepted belief. I feel like I helped to change in some small way that culture and I'm hoping that I will have as I look back on my legacy 20 years from now, I hope that these next 20 years which will take me into age 82 will be, oh yeah, he was the guy that made us think about how to solve hunger, poverty, war, catastrophic climate change and make money doing it.

21:14

Ramesh: It's socially I think reformative and lots of big problems you are trying to solve Shel.

21:23

Shel: Yeah that’s where my kind of ADD personality being interested in a million things all the time, an absolute sponge for information.

21:33

Ramesh: So, coming back to the entrepreneur, business side what tips can you offer other business, oh let's start with the owners. People who have the businesses, how can, what should they be thinking about growing and building their business?

21:50

Shel: Well they should be thinking about if it isn't happening yet, it will be happening soon that their customers or clients will start to demand social action from them. So, they want to be prepared. They really want to be thinking about how can we impact the wider world and then turn that into a marketing advantage and that is something I can help with, people can contact me. My website again is www.goingbeyondsustainability.com, my phone number is 4135863288 and on that website if you go to the freebies page, www.goingbeyondsustainability.com/freebies, there is a whole bunch of stuff that I give away and the very top one is a special report on basically ten ways that you can create a profitable social change focused business. Because what will happen is, it’ll be like green. Right now, if you have a choice between doing business with a green company and a not green company and the products, the quality, the pricing, the service are all relatively comparable, you're going to go with the one making the difference and that is going to be true as we go forward in all of these other areas as well. It's not enough just to be green anymore. But you want to be making the world greener and it's not enough to be concerned and giving charity. You want to develop products and services that help people actually have a better life.

23:17

Ramesh: Correct, that is actually I think the unique angle that you bring to the parties that hate not just being sustainable, but you be profitably sustainable. Yeah so if I'm a person wanting to look at business right, whatever the business, what are the tips that you could share with them based on your experience?

23:40

Shel: Well one is to keep your cost down especially when you're in the startup phase and there are a lot of creative ways to do that. I am after 38 years in business, I am still working from home and I love that. I don't have any office overhead. I get to have my music and my food right here, I get to enjoy this incredible mountain behind my house and for me that works well. But I also like the first laser printer I bought, and this was back when new laser printers were seven thousand dollars. Well I found one for 4500 remaindered and I got three other business owners to go in on it. So, my cost was very very affordable and since I was the one who set this thing up and lived at my office, so they would have to come over here to run their prints. But meanwhile I had this $4,500 machine for including the table we bought to put the thing on, it was like $700. So that was a huge savings and an expense I didn't have to incur. There are a lot of things you can do like that. A lot of low-hanging fruit and also think about what parts of your business you need to do yourself in what parts you delegate. For example, I write a birthday greeting every year that goes out on social media, specifically at Facebook. But I don't send it out. I have an assistant who actually goes and says oh hey here, it’s your birthday. This year I'm sending a greeting from Paul McCartney, last year it was something else and it feels very personal to the person who receives it and I get a lot of positive interactions based on that and I of course handle the follow-up, but I don't handle the initial sending out.

25:19

Ramesh: So, outsource where you can okay.

25:21

Shel: Yeah outsource where you can, but do the things that really require your own skill set. So, I don’t have source copywriting ever. Oh, that's something I do for people and I do it really well and why should I have source that?

25:39

Ramesh: So, what are the I mean challenges that you face, you said the zigzag of the 38 years of a business journey.

25:48

Shel: Well right now the biggest challenge I have is trying to figure out how to market appropriately both to the small entrepreneur and to much bigger companies. In all my years in business I’ve really never had big corporate clients. And so that's a whole different mindset, a whole different pricing structure, a whole different way of thinking about being in business that I am still figuring out.

26:09

Ramesh: And also, the, maybe there is overhead that comes with trying to reach out to these large corporations as well.

26:14

Shel: Yeah yeah, I might have to buy some new clothes. But I also you know because I’ve been an outsider lone wolf kind of person for so long, I would not want to be working for one of those big corporations as a full-time employee. As a consultant I think they will put up with and actually welcome my lack of conformity with the traditional this culture. But if I were an employee, it would be soul deadening for me and many of these companies at this point probably most of the fortune 500 have their own at least sustainability coordinator, if not sustainability department. So those people are in full-time position. So, figuring out what do I have to offer to them that they don't have in-house, one thing I Thought might work is that they can offer me to their smaller vendors or clients or small business units within the organization that maybe don't have access to the sustainable and research this and I become a marketing asset for them. Because you know whatever it is, Unilever has provided you with three hours of consulting from this brilliant guy named Shel Horowitz, let us know how you think.

27:29

Ramesh: Yeah yeah, yeah actually there's a lot of possibilities that out there for you. So, one of the other questions I want to ask you is that I mean you've been a pretty successful entrepreneur based on the experience that you shared with us. But if you were to restart your company, let's say you were to restart your business life, let's say today, so what are the things that you would do, or you would not do based on the experience so far?

27:56

Shel: Okay number one is I would have outsourced earlier, number two, as I would claim my identity in the green business world and regenerativity business world much earlier. I could have had the domain www.greenmarketing.com, my friend Jacqueline Ottoman got it years before I thought to. Because I’ve been doing, I had a client in the solar industry in 1983. I did the brochure for him, I wrote it on a typewriter. You know I have been in this space a very very long time. But I hadn't really thought in until the last 10 years or so that that's where I was really going to concentrate. So, I missed some opportunities there. I think I would have looked more at what is actually working in my particular business and how to do more of it and how to do less of the things that aren't working, I was a little bit slow to figure some of that out. But also, one thing I wouldn't change is that I’ve always been content not to be driven by the desire to make absolutely the most money I could, but to make a comfortable living and to do good in the world.

29:01

Ramesh: I mean that probably provided the right balance.

29:04

Shel: Yes.

29:03

Ramesh: Okay. So that's good Shel. So, anything else that you want to share with the listeners who are either would be entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs themselves?

29:16

Shel: Yeah one other thing in addition to that great special report that you can get on the freebie page is if you fill out an assessment about your readiness to do social change and environmental profitability stuff in your business, that earns a fifteen-minute free be consulting session with me and fifteen minutes, you'd be surprised how much good advice you can get in fifteen minutes. So, I would encourage people to go to www.goingbeyondsustainability.com /freebies, download the report, read the report and then go back and do that assessment and then claim the 15 minutes with me.

29:48

Ramesh: Shel I mean this opened my eyes a lot and then it definitely you come across as a person with a lot of passion and then trying to you know I have a purposeful journey. So good luck.

30:02

Shel: Thank you so much.

30:04

Ramesh: Thank you very much for your time Shel, really appreciate it.

30:04

Shel: It's been fun, and I look forward to sharing the link.

30:08

Ramesh: Okay definitely thank you.

Creating a fantasy experience business including mermaid sleeping bags with Mark Viniello – AEP # 17

July 16th, 2019 by
Guest: Mark Viniello

​Company / Business name: ​​​​​​ ​​​OverActive Imaginations, Inc.

Mark Viniello, professional Hollywood make-up effects artist turned Entrepreneur and author. Mark has worked on such films as: The Lord of the Rings, Avengers: Infinity War, Stranger Things and the upcoming Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark.

Show Notes:

01:06 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Many times, a business idea starts with your passionate interests. Be passionate. 

Mark talks about his love of making monsters and how his work on Adam Sandler’s bedtime stories of making a mermaid tale started the whole thing. Initially, he made some mermaid tails for his four daughters and as the word spread around, Mark started making the mermaid kits for others.

4:55 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Deliver a complete immersive experience to differentiate your offering.

Mark expands on how he grew that one mermaid sleeping bag idea into an entire kit where the customers get a complete experience with inspirational and educational books, a tote, and complete background on the mermaids.

07:37 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Keep learning from people who have done similar things before. Your network can also be a huge help. 

Mark talks about how he learned from the likes of Jennifer Kepler, Sara Blakley, and Rowland who successfully navigated the journey from artists to becoming successful business people. Mark then relied on friends and family who are into various aspects of a business like licensing merchandise, tradeshows, and packaging to pick their brains. 

13:38 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Ensure that price, promotion, and quality are in sync.

Mark then talks about pricing and how iterated on coming up with pricing. Once he decided on a price, Mark relied on referrals and testimonials to build his business. Mark also made sure that the product quality is high and the customers could experience the quality of his offering so they feel that the price matches the quality.

20:12 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Test different strategies like unbundling a product and customer segmentation. 

Mark further talks about different strategies like unbundling the product (sleeping bag, book etc.) so the overall price can be lowered without compromising the quality. He also mentioned segmenting the customers so he can provide younger adults with a different product as well.

22:48 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Keep you passion going. Most successful businesspeople kept investing initial profits into the business.

Mark continues to invest the profit back into the business as he has been expanding his product line. He is not keen on overnight success and believes that the ‘overnight success’ comes from multiple years of hard work. The focus on entertaining and the exciting the kids will pay off.

26:33 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Keep learning, keep momentum going for long term success 

Mark gives advice to would-be entrepreneurs as follows: (1) Learn by standing on the shoulders of the giants (2) Make little advances every day and keep the momentum going (3) Keep your journal (4) Keep asking yourself why started on this journey initially.

00:00

Ramesh: Hello everyone welcomes to the agile entrepreneur podcast. This is your host Ramesh Dontha. This podcast is about starting and building your own business with purpose, passion, perseverance and possibilities. Today our guest is Mark Viniello. Mark has a very interesting background and let me just go over this. Mark is a professional Hollywood makeup effects artist, turned entrepreneur and author. Mark has worked on such films as the Lord of the Rings, Avengers, infinity war, stranger things and the upcoming scary stories to tell in the dark. Hey Mark welcome.

00:48

Mark: Hey Ramesh thank you.

00:50

Ramesh: I don't know where to get started with your interview man. So, you have such a fascinating individual background and then I really want to talk about your business. So maybe I’ll come to your background later, but let's get started with the business. So, what is your business?

01:06

Mark: So well actually the background is a big reason that I started my business and how that journey kind of happened. I mean I looked at you know where you are today or where we are today can be sum of experiences, decisions, successes and failures in your life and how my business started, my side business was part of my vocation. Since I was a little kid, I always wanted to make monsters for movies. I was fascinated with monsters and makeup and, so I went my whole life like sculpting monsters gluing stuff to my face just trying to make monsters performing after college I moved to California. I'm going to give you the short version here. I was fortunate enough to be given an opportunity to work on some films and I’ve been working ever since, making monsters for movies. Which is a little odd job. It was in 2005 I was working on an Adam Sandler film called bedtime stories and in the film actor Keri Russell turned into a mermaid and so my job was to fabricate her mermaid tail out of foam latex. I have four daughters and my oldest two was 5 at the time. Loved mermaid, so I showed her this mermaid tail and she climbed in the thing, of course it was too big for her and she loved it and every day after that first climbing in that tail, dad make me a mermaid tail, dad made me a mermaid tail. Finally, I was here's a mermaid tail, so I just quickly fashioned one out of some sheet foam, it is very crude. But she loved it, she would crawl around the house. She'd flip her tail watching a little mermaid and she loved it and her sisters wanted it, their own tails to be different. So, I said fine you know I made the tail. Because I would do things with my kids where I would you know we'd play dress-up and I'd make masks and prosper games that we would play. So, they loved it and they wanted to hear about where their mermaids from. I said okay you're from the Mariana Trench, which is the only spot in the ocean I knew by name and you know we were able to google it and look it up and she was fascinating. She asked does other mermaids live down there? I'm like I said sure. So, it kind of developed from there and I thought this is cool, they would tell their friends about it and I thought there's something we can do that could have a multi-tiered purpose, not just be fun and entertaining and imaginative, but also could it, could we can send a message, an inspirational message and educational message. So that's kind of the genesis how this is started. At the time there were no swimmable mermaid tails, you know they have all these like silicone tails and it was nothing at that time and I toyed around the idea. Do I want something that kids could slip on and you know swim in the pool and I thought that, I don't know, because I don't want somebody thinking hey this will teach my kid how to swim? It's a fishtail and throw them in the pool. You know there were too many variables that I thought someone could hurt and say you know what, I don't want it and then I went back to the film I worked on, it was called bedtime stories and I thought okay and that was the inspiration what can we do to riff on that and so we wrote a storybook, then we have a sleeping bag, a mermaid tail shape sleeping bag and in trying to connect the story with the product. In our story the mermaid used their special powers in their tails flow. So, we had our bags of clothes that glow in the dark thread to bring the story off the page and we did leave it in the narrative. So, kids can, they can Google and they can find Mariana Trench is a real place and this sea buddy, that this Tiger Tail seahorse is a real animal and it's in danger. You know the other mermaids are endangered sea buddy. So, we're putting in, we're making a very entertaining story. But we're putting in real world issues and education, so kids can learn while they're just enjoying this toy.

04:50

Ramesh: So as a customer what do they buy from you?

04:55

Mark: So, our deluxe five-piece set comes with our depending on which style mermaid, we have three styles currently there's nine more, they're in development. So, you'll get a five-piece set. You'll get your sleeping bag, which is I won't say the best one in the world I'm not just bragging. The only one that glows in the dark and the tail fin of the mermaid is based on the sea life that actually lives in the mermaid’s realm. The chapter book which introduces you to the mermaid and her particular realm and her people and their culture and history, you get a bigger a set of character stickers. You can put on a wall, you get a carry tote where you can put your belongings, you can roll your sleeping bag up, put it in. And then we have a pillow, it has our logo and on the back of the pillow is all other names of mermaids and realms that are coming up. They try to Google, see what you can discover. There's little clues hidden in there.

05:44

Ramesh: Mark, very interesting. Because in the past when I talk to other entrepreneurs, the people who try to blend creativity, artistry and then make it into business, I’ve seen some people struggle. So how are you overcoming that challenge? You know there's a lot of creativity, a lot of artistry, a lot of product design is involved in this. So, a lot of intricate stuff. So how are you able to fashion that into a money-making business?

06:16

Mark: It's funny you touch upon that, that is very accurate. Now as a makeup effects artist, I’ve worked with some of the most incredible artists and creative technicians on the planet. People I work with are phenomenal. They're incredible. Some of them can't balance the checkbook. It's kind of shocking actually how amazing they are, but certain things like business, I found the more artistic the person is, sometimes it's harder for them to stick to a budget or to you know left-brain type things. I seem to be split down the middle, where I do have artistic side, but I also have the practical side. Where I can look at a budget and I can look at things and I can make creative decisions based on the bottom line and you have to be willing and you have to figure out you know artistically I think it's important to stay close to your vision. But the reality of it is at what cost. You have to carefully consider the cost benefits and the decisions you're making and how it's going to impact the business.

07:14

Ramesh: Correct, see the other aspect of this is, yours is not like an on line, the digital business right. So, you have a physical product here. So, you have to make decisions about how much inventory to carry, you know who are your distributors in all that stuff right. So how are you, can you just go through those details for people sitting at home listening to this podcast.

07:37

Mark: Sure, so I’ll have to back up again. Because you know with my background, you need an animatronic dinosaur? I am your guy. I can tell you how to build it. However, when we came with this idea, making the product, that wasn't terribly difficult. That's what I do all the time. But those next steps which you described, I didn't know where to begin. So, things I heard when we started, because I do a lot of research. I'm a firm believer in standing on the shoulders of giants. Looking at people that have come before you that are where you want to go. Look at their journey, see what they have done. So, my inspiration initially was Jennifer Kepler, who did hello pet. Pleasent Rowland who created American Girl doll and Sara Blakely who invented Spanx and while none of those are exactly like the product I have, I was very curious about how they went on their journey. So, the first step I did, I looked at who is in this world, who has done this, and I started there and then I reached out to friends and family, and found out I had a family member who is in textiles. So, I called her up and I asked her questions and she said you may want to license this idea and I go what does that mean? Licensing mean? I have no clue. So, she explained it to me and I said okay so there was licensing show that happens once a year in Las Vegas and doing some research, I thought this may be where we want to go. But I’ve never been and usually the advice is, if you're going to go to a trade show you go first, walk the floor, get a sense of it before you get a booth. I did, let's get a booth. Expensive proposition which if I had to do it over again I don't think I would have done that. But you know things happen for a reason. So, our other friends are Randy and Susan said they have a friend named Kim who has been to licensing shows. She was a universal consumer product, she's like a EP and I met her, and they said she'll come and she'll sit down. I said great I want to learn about licensing shows. So, she came over to house, I met her, very nice lady. We sat down, we talked for about 90 minutes. I showed her the sleeping bags, my kids were jumping around. I explained the story and she just kind of sat there looking at me going you get all of this and I go yeah, I mean then the next step is like how do I find a manufacturer? How do I you know get it on the shelf? She said I can help you. And I said really? She said, the first thing we're going to do is I'm going to introduce you to Joy Tashjian, she works at a licensing companies JTMG and I met with her and when I talked with her about licensing show, she said okay stop you don't need a booth, don't get a booth. I already paid for the booth. She goes, I’ll figure something out for you. I know the people, I’ll help figure something out. I didn't get my money back. I got shifted to another area like we were able to get a little Cabana for like the night, which we were going to do for like some social gathering. I was able to use Joy's set up. She had our bag set up there and in her booth, she was having multiple meetings. Like again licensing shows seemed like the place to go, it wasn't for me. If we had gone there with a booth, it would have been a disaster. Our bag setup, I was going to have a mermaid in the tank brought people for the booth and people would have come and what would have happened is, they would have taken pictures and I probably wouldn't have landed a manufacturer, and somebody would have got this in the production before we could. But because I had to be able to engage joy, I was kind of under her forcefield and she had a private room where manufactures and people were going to her looking for the next thing. So, company called my text home fashions, which is nice as he's one of her clients. He came in, said what are those? I won't talk about those. So, she explained to him what they were, I met him, liked him very much. We hit it off and they said we can, we want to sign under the licensing manufacturers, I said great what happens now? So, they said we're going to need the samples and we went through a design phase with them and it was a lot of back-and-forth and they actually and again coming from Hollywood my expectations are pretty high and very rarely are they exceeded my expectations. This is one of the reasons, my text did such a phenomenal job, I was blown away by the quality of the packaging, the craftsmanship. I mean it was fantastic. So, through my text I got to know their sales representative and Bobby and he was able to through his channels he was able to get us meetings with QVC, Macy, Bed Bath & Beyond. Right, now I didn't go to those meetings because I was busy doing other stuff. But I had my team go and you know they came back and said, we went four to four and I go what does that mean? We had four meetings, people sign on and say yes. I said great, Mark you don't understand. Like if you go one for ten you did great. And I'm like oh again no clue, so I mean I called a buddy of mine I have  to do again I firmly believe to back up is, if you have an idea for something whether be entrepreneur or anything, you already subconsciously know everybody you need to know to make it a reality. You may not see you, but I'm telling you, you do. Because when I came up with this idea, I started writing down people I knew they are doing their own businesses. Buddy of mine started this holster pack they made, other dear friends Mike and Scott Stave, own Ergo Chef, Ergonomic chef knives and I was getting way farther along in their entrepreneurial journey than I am. So, I would call them and ask them for advice. So, you know that was very helpful as well. So again, I encourage anybody really sit down and write and think about the people you know that you can drop on to get information from. I guarantee they are within your radius.

13:22

Ramesh: So, mark you touched on so many aspects of the business already. You talked about designing, you talked about manufacturing, you talked about distribution and how about pricing? How did you decide on the pricing?

13:38

Mark: Pricing was challenging, and I will, there's a couple of things with pricing and this was a little, again this was actually a bit of a challenge and a pitfall. Because really the manufacturer they said that they came back, and they said you know this is what our cost to make it, I was like, I said well we want really good quality. So, we originally came out of the gate at $1499.99, which is a pretty pricey price tag and my thought was though the value proposition is there, where we fell short was conveying that to the customer online. Right now, all of our sales channels were just online. We didn't get any retail placement. So, and the reason that happens is the retailer doesn't know how something is going to perform. So instead of taking a valuable real estate in the store, they'll start something online, they'll see how it does. If it does well, then you will get placement. So that’s how that started and again I had I remember we had a, I mean there's so many things to juggle. I can touch on so many things and one of the things is social media. Social media is huge and social media marketing. My cousin works for Hasbro and you know she says that there's a major shift now as far as how marketing dollars are spent as far as you know what's traditional marketing and now what is online marketing or social media marketing. So I have a girl that worked on our social media stuff and when we were on QVC, QVC had a contact and I remember I had a comment on the QVC page with the social media, because I watch everything like a hawk and this customer, as a potential customers said wow these are really cute but $99, so that's really expensive and then my media girl said hey thank you for the comment, want to let you know the reason it's so expensive is that we have a, you know a book and she outlined the value proposition. But all the customer responded with was, I think it's funny too that you said you are quote-unquote "so expensive" and I read that. So again, being in Hollywood for so many years and working with, I found a certain way to phrase things that can be very helpful and beneficial. So, what I responded with is, I said hey June I forget what I'm saying I want to thank you again for your comment. You have touched a challenge that we've had, which is to convey the quality that we have through an online picture and that's very very hard for us to do right now without actually physically seeing the product and I went there and at the end of it she responded like a day later said, hey thanks for your comment, you know what I ordered two, I'm going to give them to my granddaughters. But I think they're so pretty expenses Christmas, she sent us an email and said, hey I want to let you know that I gave these to my granddaughters and when they opened them, and I looked at them, she said the quality is spectacular. She said, its worth every penny for what you guys have and I responded right away, I said thank you can I use this? Can I use all of your quotes? It's marketing and she said absolutely. So that’s a real a big win for us, as far as being able to win a customer over with the valuable proposition. But generally speaking and that's what it's about. So, you look at things and I talked to my sister about this, who's very smart and she says Mark you're not a thing until you're a thing. I said what does that mean? She said will you look at the cash me outside girl, which is a reality show. She's a rapper now. She was on dr. Phil. It was a drama, she is kind of a troubled child and she's like 13, she had very foul-mouthed, very arrogant and she became kind of a viral sensation and she started a website with merchandise and one of the things she was selling was a fleece blanket with her face like screened up, 250 dollars a blanket and that got me thinking. Because again like a fleece blanket with your face on it, that doesn’t cost anything. But she was able to command $250 a unit. Because of her notoriety.

17:48

Ramesh: Her personality.

17:49

Mark: Correct. But she was on stage and got known very quickly. That’s one of the challenging things mean is the marketing the advertising is, I know we have a great product, the challenge is getting it to the right people that can acknowledge that as well. We had a couple of, we've done a couple of trade shows. We did some local little kids camps and stuff. We didn't sell a single thing. I remember I was started and another colleague of mine, a friend who works in video games, he said Mark let's say you went to this thing with a box of Call of Duty Xbox game,  no, he was right. Now what did that tell you? Call of Duty is the biggest video game ever and the fact this particular venue does that mean the video game suck? No, you know you weren't targeting the right, I said it was kids. He goes, Mark you've got to understand. We went into a long discussion about it, it really did open my eyes and then I started, because you know I figure and the boss I’ve got to learn as much as possible, challenging and painful it is, or I started losing the marketing page, advertising, there's so much stuff out there it's overwhelming. Tony Robbins, I listen to Tony Robbins grand cargo. Tony Robin said stuck with me regarding marketing and he's using McDonald’s as a reference. He said look at McDonald’s. McDonald’s have the best hamburger in the world. Does it have the most nutritious hamburger in the world? No, you know what does it have? It has a value proposition that people know from when they put down five dollars, they are going to get this back and it will be worth it and they're marketing juggernaut when it comes to that. You when you actually consider even after show, even after the documentary Super Size Me, which was pretty damaging to McDonalds, no, they're still around us, they're still hanging in there. So, they've really got it dialed in as far as marketing messages, changing with the times, keeping your finger on the pulse and the value proposition, that is key.

19:52

Ramesh: Okay so that's the area looks like you're still navigating. The marketing and promotion advertising and especially finding the right, the customer and the places they go to buy these kinds of things. Have you thought about unbundling your product and then see if that makes any difference?

20:12

Mark: Absolutely, we have thought about that and right now that is something that is going to happen in the future. But for this time, the manufacturer said well for multiple reasons we're going to keep with this model at the moment. But you know in the next wave when we start launching some of the next sleeping bags, during the next run we're going to talk about unbundling some of the things. But also, to more importantly is we have, this is a multi-tiered concept. We have our sleeping bag and the chapter book, we’re also developing it into young adults, which we affectionately refer to as our Harry Potter series and hope for the best. So, it's going to take the characters and it's going to you know age with them and put them into more age-appropriate scenarios and drama and it was that story now that we are in talking with a development deal with an agent about turning this into a potential TV series or film series, we're going to pitch it to some studios. Again, now we're getting back into my world having you know been in Hollywood, so I'm a little more comfortable here and what we'll do is that will give us our really our advertising will be these some series and things that people will see. So that's, we are pretty excited about that.

21:30

Ramesh: Okay so let's talk a little bit about the business. When did you actually start the company?

21:37

Mark: So, the corporation overactive imaginations was founded in 2013 and it was little slow going because I'd like to get my ducks in a row. So, I was cooperating with the state of California. I went through the patent process, because I wanted to get a patent for my sleeping bag. Which I talked about that, then trademarking the logo, I went to do that. Then getting the writers and the books, getting the deals with the actual authors and they are my stories which we write them. So, there were those deals that had to be put in place. I mean fortunately I had very very good attorneys, I still have a good attorney that were wonderful helping us in the beginning. So, it kind of, you had to go through steps to do those things. And again, it's a little time and that kind of freaked me out a little bit, because while I'm trying to do all this, other companies are starting to come out with stuff and I started to see like little similar things and I'm like I got to get moving on this. We really had to fast track the development to get out into the marketplace.

22:39

Ramesh: Okay so I mean how long did it actually take you to feel comfortable about the business?

22:48

Mark: How long you feel comfortable about your business, you know I'm really proud of what we have. I'm really proud of what we created, but I'm always looking for like what can we do better, what can we do to improve things, what can we do to give an experience, a magical experience to the customer. I mean you know Jeff Bezos I had a quote, he said, you know every business is going to fail, Amazon one day will fail and it's our job and that as long as possible and I thought, oh my gosh like that doesn't sound like someone who's particularly comfortable with their business. That sounds like someone who's you know a realist very much and looking way down the line and you know always again being aware of the changing tide and it's changing a lot quicker now than before. So that's challenging as well as looking at and things change so fast and you have to change with it or you're going to be left in the dust. I mean again you look at blockbuster, there was one-time blockbuster over the roof, it was and then they heard about this Netflix, in the story I’ve read many years before that's a thing. Like three and a half years later, the damage was already done, and they were scrambling. So, you know it happens very very quickly and that's one of the, again one of the biggest mistakes you can make is you can fall too in love with your product and your model and thinking that you don't have to leave that.

24:17

Ramesh: So now you are three plus years into the business, do you think you made that turnaround from an investment to being profitable?

24:28

Mark: Yeah, I mean we put the money back in the business, any profits go back into the business into working the next development for the next line of mermaids. Because we've got 12 mermaids, we've got three months right now and we have one more that is starting to do the prototypes right now for that particular mermaid. So, I mean am I you know I'm not on a yacht, but if you know I can pay my bills, the foods on the table, I'm still making monsters for movies. So, I'm not completely independent yet. But it is every year's been better and if you know in the beginning it got a little frustrating. But you have to look at you know the improvements you've made, you know even monthly, whatever. You just have to look at where you are now versus where you were obviously you make really far from where you want to be. But you have to focus on the journey and the task instead of getting so caught up and like oh! Why isn't this going, why aren’t we not selling a thousand bag a day or you know stuff like that. Because it's very easy to get your own head especially when we read stories online about overnight "successes" and you know and the joke is, it took me ten years to become an overnight success. That is a legitimate statement. So, it is very true. So again, we're focused on the business, I didn't want to do a product that was a one and done. Like just make sleeping bag even though I was originally advised to do that by several people. I said no, I want to do a brand, I want to do a story. I want to tell stories, I want kids to get excited. I want to tell these stories in a way where all the characters, all the books are connected, they all dovetail into one another and you know kids can get together with their different sleeping bags and read stories about their characters and learn about the ocean and learn about conservation. I think that's very important as well and kids learn best when they are entertained. So that’s really what our focus is.

26:22

Ramesh: So, if I'm sitting at home listening to the podcast and then listening to your journey, so what tips can you offer me if I want to start my own business?

26:33

Mark: Okay all right. So, the first tip to stand on the shoulders of giants. Look at somebody you admire or somebody that has a product or has done something that is similar, does not have to be exact, learn as much as you can about them. With the internet now, it's an amazing resource. The second thing is try and make little advances every day. Some days you're going to get up, you're going to feel on fire, other days like I am so wiped out today. What I and start doing anything and that's normal, but it is important to constantly build on something. So, what I believe in and I believe this if you look at sports, is momentum and momentum is key. I've watched sports games where team was winning, there's a problem, momentum had stopped. Like the lights went out in the dome and then it comes back in and the other team takes over. So, momentum, you have to keep the momentum going. It doesn't have to be something massive. So, what I found very empowering a couple of things was, find a website name, buy the domain name. Go to GoDaddy, buy a domain name. It's not expensive, especially you know when you are starting most likely on a budget. But do those little steps and you know write it down, write down the journey that's something else I encourage. Like I started keeping a journal and again that you can be like oh my gosh I forgot about that, like that sucked. You know look at where I am today. So, I encourage you, write in a journal, small wins, standing on the shoulders of giants and you know you have to assess, you have to look at what you're doing. A lot of these inspirations they say keep going, you know follow your dreams you know. Yes, but some time and no one really says that, sometimes people just have a bad idea. It's a bad concept and you either have to completely retool it or come up with something else. So, you know another analogy is, it's not just about trying harder banging against the window. Its motivated, really hard. But until it can stop and assess it, okay wait a second, I'm doing this, I'm not getting anywhere. But if I go over here, go out this open door, I can get to where I want to go. And that’s sometimes you get so focused, but you have to really assess what's working and what's not and then adjust accordingly. There is no one path, there are several paths. So just find one and don't be afraid like things may shift, like you look at Apple, Apple started with computers. What does their biggest company share right now? Phones. But I mean like it's amazing how things kind of change and shift and you have to be willing, you have to be flexible.

29:03

Ramesh: Wow! So, Mark I mean it's extremely fascinating podcast here. So, this is my personal question and I have two daughters as well and my older daughter was into this Monsters Inc that movie, did you work on that movie?

29:17

Mark: No Mark I wish, Monsters Inc. I love movie by the way. It's a digital film, I make real monsters. So, I make you know animatronic dinosaurs, prosthetic makeups there's you know other companies that do like the computer animation. I don't do that at all.

29:36

Ramesh: Yeah that is a phenomenal movie. Hey this is very very fascinating, and I think we can go on forever. I mean myself can go on learning from you a lot. Best of luck on your journey.

29:54

Mark: Thank you Ramesh.

29:55

Ramesh: It looks like it's a family enterprise, you and wife and kids are also involved. So those are the kinds of the things that the fun enterprises.

30:03

Mark: It is, and you know my kids are great, because they're the best. You know they are also like that, that's dumb. Dad, no kid's going to want that. I am like, really? Okay. So, you know they're able to keep me on what's new. Because it is changing, and I can’t keep up with it. But they keep up with it. Yeah this was fun Ramesh, thank you. You ever want to have me back and talk about something else, by all means.

30:21

Ramesh: Definitely, definitely I think we'll definitely have you back and we'll look at your journey in a year from now and see how you're doing. Thank you very much.

30:28

Mark: Thank you all right.

Building businesses with Business turnaround specialist and revenue expert Dr. Drew Stevens – AEP # 16

June 18th, 2019 by
Guest: ​Drew Stevens

​Company / Business name: ​​​​​​ ​​​Stevens Performance Group and Stevens Capital

Drew Stevens is a world-renowned business turnaround and revenue expert. Drew works with business owners who struggle with revenue and transforms them into wealthy professionals.

Tools / Books / Resources mentioned:

Tools: Dragon Fly Software, Dropbox, Google Suite

Show Notes:

00:52 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Start with focus on your skills, expertise, and personal attributes to identify business focus areas.

Drew talks about the way started his company by assessing his strengths in sales and marketing and deciding to focus on companies always struggling in some way shape or form like they are either bankrupt, about to go through bankruptcy, just coming out of bankruptcy.

2:51 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Develop a multi-dimensional approach to building your brand

Drew expands on his brand building journey where he started speaking professionally, writing articles, and books. Additionally, Drew also started providing capital in private equity placements for a 3 pronged approach to building his personal brand.

06:54 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Focus on fit, fun, and financial customers and learn to say no.

Drew talks about the importance of saying no because entrepreneurship can be all consuming if you don’t. He also talks about the importance of selecting clients who are fit, fun, financial which means the ‘right fit’ for you, fun to work with, and financially strong to work with.

11:23 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Tough times are a reality in any business. Weather them with mentors, support network, and being astute.

Drew talks about the challenging times and how he overcame them. He did 3 things (1) Relied on a small circle of mentors (2) have smart people around him to guide him (3) be shrewd about the work he selects and the operations of his company.

15:12 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Focus on building customer pipeline with multiple avenues (speaking, writing, networking etc.)

Drew talks about customer pipeline and deal flow. Drew’s typical customer engagement is for 90 days or so and he has learned to manage deal flow so he is never overwhelmed or without customers. With a combination of writing, speaking, podcasting, networking, and referrals, Drew has managed to fill the customer pipeline steadily.

21:58 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Start with your goal, amount of time you can put in, and the amount of money you can put in to get started with your business.

Drew gives advice to would-be entrepreneurs along these lines. Expand on your dreams, vision, and goals. No need for extensive business plans. Ask yourself how many hours you can put in without complaining. Lastly, how much money you can put in without going broke. The answers to these questions will help you get started with a sound foundation.

26:34 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Start with focus on your skills, expertise, and personal attributes to identify business focus areas.

Drew gives advice based on his journey. (1) Surround yourself with small team of smart people (2) Stop listening to every piece of advice (3) Keep chasing your dream even though there will be lot of naysayers (4) Don’t give up

00:01

Ramesh: Hello everyone. Welcome to The Agile Entrepreneur Podcast, this is your host, Ramesh Dontha. This podcast is about starting on building your own business with purpose, passion, perseverance, and possibilities. Today's guest is Dr. Drew Stevens, Drew Stevens is a world-renowned business turnaround and revenue expert. Drew works with business owners who struggle with revenue and transforms them into wealthy professionals. Hey Drew, welcome to the podcast.

00:37

Drew: Thank you for having me, Ramesh. I'm excited to be here

00:40

 Ramesh: Thank you for your time. So, your company name, I mean, your website is www.DrewStevens.com and how did you become a turnaround expert?

00:52

Drew: It's a good question, So I had worked with middle market companies for the better part of approximately 15 years on Wall Street. And the industry I was in was suffering from disintermediation and I wound up taking a bunch of different jobs in senior leadership as a chief operating officer and chief executive officer for some other middle-market firms, but it was outside of that industry and I had suffered dramatically, personally and professionally. My mother-in-law had passed away and subsequently, I had lost three jobs in a six-month period because the one I was with actually terminated me as I came home from her funeral. I took another two jobs right after that and they did not work out. So, I decided that the next person who was going to terminate me was me and that's actually how I started my own company, looking at myself, looking at the assets of my God-given talents and saying, “I am very good in sales and marketing and where do I help companies? And that was helping them scale for growth. So, my role had always been with working with companies who were always struggling in some way shape or form, they were either bankrupt, about to go through bankruptcy, just coming out of bankruptcy, and I thought that was a nice niche for me and so that's where I actually have my starts.

 02:20

Ramesh: Excellent. So, when did you start your company?

02:23

Drew: Back in 2003.

02:25

Ramesh: 2003, so it's been really good for you for about 16 years or so.

02:31

Drew: Very much so. If you take out the effects of 9/11 as well as 27 or 2007 & 2008, all the way through 2010, yes, excellent.

 02:41

Ramesh: Excellent. So, it looks like you may not only do this turnaround business, but you also write, you're an author?

02:51

Drew: Yes, actually. It’s interesting that you should pick that up because when I first got into the business, I was a consultant. I was an advisor. And I was missing a couple of different elements. I was sitting back and saying I'm working hard but I'm not working smart and I wanted to do things that allowed me to work smart, helped me to manifest my brand, helped me to build a community around me as well as help me to stop being so one-dimensional. And so immediately, I thought that there were two things missing: one, from a marketing perspective, I lacked the capability of really promoting my brand in a decent way other than some of the things that I was doing, which was cold calling and referrals. So, I got into professional speaking and I also wrote many articles, I now have roughly 4200 articles 2200 blog posts, I've done audio, I've done video. And so, I turned all of that into becoming a professional speaker and I've written 14 books and that was just on the marketing side and the other thing that I then wanted to do is take a look at the business aspect and the other thing that I was missing was even though I was doing a lot of consulting and advisory work, I was still missing something in terms of broadening the offerings that I had with the organizations. So, in addition to the turnaround specialty that I offer, I also now provide capital lending in private equities so that an organization that is looking to develop its brand, is looking to or is looking to exit or perhaps conduct a merger and acquisition for reasons of expansion, I can now help with all of that. So now, I have a three-dimensional approach to building a business.

04:47

Ramesh: That is pretty significant. So, you started the business in 2003, when did you actually decided to write and then expand your brand through books?

04:59

Drew: I want to tell you it was roughly a year and a half, maybe two years later. I wound up joining two organizations when I had first gotten involved in the consulting aspect, much like any other small business owner would but rather than go to the chambers, rather than go to some small business societies, I joined the National Speakers Association and the American Society, what was known then as the American Society of training and development. The reason I join that was because I was doing workshops, I was doing a lot of seminars and so that whole training aspect seemed to fit, and the speaking opportunity really led to the whole notion of professional speaking. And I believe it was when I was with my professional speaking colleagues that they had said to me that the next phase of becoming a speaker was authorship and that's where I believe I received that notion I needed to write. And it's something that I enjoy doing and I do very quickly as a matter of fact. I've gone from books that have taken me, say, six, seven months and now I can write a book literally inside of 30 days.

06:13

Ramesh: That’s incredible. So, can you talk a little bit about how your business was pre-authorship and post-authorship?

06:24

Drew: It wasn't even authorship per se. Ramesh, I think if I look at the maturation of my business. When I first started, I was like anybody else and a good example is we all have children or those that do have children and our child comes home and they put things together in kindergarten with finger paint and it's this much of nothing and they're telling you it's the most beautiful piece of art and all we see is a quagmire of colors. We see Red screens, Purples, Reds. There's really nothing there but they proud as proud can be. And that's us in small business. It doesn't matter if we could come home with a $200 contract and we're thinking it's the best thing since sliced bread. What has happened over the years is I've become more astute to how I conduct business, who I conduct business with. So outside of the authorship all the way, I understand where your question is, I've learned three things: one, I learned that we as consultants, even if it's a-- Or let's put it this way, any small business, because anybody listening to your podcast, it doesn't matter if they're a restaurant or a dry cleaner or in my case an advisor. We all bring special things to the table because we have God-given talents and so, therefore, we're subject matter experts. As such, we need to get our expertise out to market. So that's where the books, the writing has definitely helped. Two, I've learned that when many people start a business, I think they believe that it's a nine-to-five job. There is no such thing as nine-to-five. It’s a theology that really needs to be thrown in the water because if you're an entrepreneur, it's a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week experience. In fact, to the point where my wife gets annoyed because I don't shut it off. I've got a passion for it my, avocation is now my occupation but more importantly, I am constantly networking and constantly seeking out where I can conduct business and the third Ramesh, and this is very difficult for any business owner and Ramesh, I don't care if you're just starting this podcast or you've had this podcast for 40 years. If somebody is just starting a business or if has had their business for 40 years. Many business owners have an issue saying no and when you look at very good leaders, and I'm just going to choose business leaders, the Gates the Jobs, the Buffets and so on, they have learned to say no very early on in their career and what I mean by that is no to the ridiculousness of certain clients that come on board, no to clients that want you to do more than what that you were paid to do, no to clients that are belligerent, and no to just clients that you know what, it's not a good fit. I believe the clients and building business should be fit, fun and financial. You should have— One, you should be building a business with those that you can have some fun with, you can laugh and enjoy each other's company. Two, that fit the value that you provide to that particular client or the demographics within that client and three, Clients that can pay you. Because there were so many people that want to do business that we want to do business with but there are many times they just can't pay us, and it doesn't matter, like, I said, if a restaurant or we're an appliance person, they should--Anybody listening to this podcast could be shipping Amazon packages and they don't want to pay the shipping cost for Amazon. Sorry, you have to learn to say no.

10:21

Ramesh: It's so fascinating Drew that the many people have been talking to, you know, this aspect of selecting the right customers, filing the bad customers are the people that you work with, it's a constant theme. That is when these entrepreneurs have kind of become successful so to say. They started enjoying more once it’s they started this. That is great. So, I mean 16 years of journey has it been smooth all along?

10:48

Drew: No. No business is smooth. You could take a look at Tesla, you could take a look at Facebook, you could take a look at Microsoft, Apple, and the list goes on. It's never smooth but I think as a leader whether you're working with subcontractors, employees or even by yourself, you just have to learn how to smooth out the obstacles.

11:13

Ramesh: So, what was it not late? The customer or the pipeline was not smooth? Their operations were not smooth? What aspect of your business did you face more challenges?

11:23

Drew: From where I started to where I am today if I can boil it down to three things, I recognize: one, I listen to too many people. And you really have to build a small circle of mentors and I don't want to sound trite with this but truly if you're not listening to good advice, then you need to find people that are going to be harsh with you and give you sage advice. Two, to that notion, if you're the smartest person in the room, you need to leave because you need to have a group of masterminds that can challenge you and push you constantly to higher levels and, Three, you know what, I learned Ramesh, and I was thinking about this the other day, it was coincidental because you consequently had then emailed me and said, “would you be interested in the podcast.” I've learned to be shrewder in business. I've learned to be sharper. I've learned to be more acute in my thinking as far as what kind of clients, what I'm willing to accept, what I won't accept, and I've also learned to be more much stricter than I was before. So, if a client didn't pay or a client was late with a payment or they didn't give me the proper paperwork, no that's all right. Wait a day, no, I'm to the point now where I've become much more direct intruder in doing business because my time is valuable and if people don't respect my time then I just move on to the next line.

12:56

Ramesh: Interesting. So, if you had not done your research about me, you could have fired me.

13:02

Drew: That’s right.

13:04

Ramesh: That’s pretty interesting. I like it. So, let's talk a little bit about your customer building. How do you build your pipeline?

13:13

Drew: It's a good question. I believe in integrated marketing and I teach others in marketing that's where my advisory is. There are approximately 27 different points and if I separate that out because it's a lot here for the podcast but to simplify it, integrated marketing is just a combination of both traditional and digital marketing so that you can manifest your brand and there are 27 points on those but if I nail it down four or two, let's say, the top four or five different things: One, As I mentioned, I write a lot. So, I do a lot of blogging or I do some short bursts like Twitter, Instagram, those sorts of things. I've done a tremendous amount of voiceover. So, I'm very interested in podcasting myself. I have my own podcast known as business acceleration that's been on for years. I've also done some vidcasting as well and that I find very intriguing to do. I'm active within LinkedIn groups, I'm starting to get active with Facebook groups, but the demographics are a little bit off for what I'm looking for. I still speak when I have the capability to do so but I'm also a big advocate of the latter two, and that is Networking and Referrals. So, I spent a good portion of my day on the phone trying to network within my circle also building out that circle using LinkedIn to help build out that circle and getting referrals where I can from previous clients and business colleagues to see what additional areas I might be able to conduct business.

14:56

Ramesh: I mean, if you do extensive networking and speaking and writing under social media, are you concerned about having too many clients simultaneously and not being able to service them properly?

15:12

Drew: No, because I do so much that I know what I can handle at any one time. Since I've had the business for so many years now, I know what the ebbs and flows are but the point here that I want to make because of the implication in your question is simply this, the moment you turn off your marketing you turn off anything that goes into the funnel. So, my theology is that I'm going to spend no matter what, an hour to two hours per day marketing because I always want to keep the funnel full. If I have to push a client off by a week or two, I would rather do that, or I'd rather work a few extra hours a week in order to meet the client's demands than not having conducted the marketing and then trying to fill that at a later date.

16:05

Ramesh: That’s really good. So, one of the entrepreneurs talked about-- No she's a therapist, her planned engagements are short. So, she has to keep on filling it. So, what is the duration of your client engagements?

16:21

Drew: If I'm doing turnaround and revenue operations and that's all I am all I'm doing as advisory work, minimally three months, maximum six to nine. My attitude is, if I can't fix you within three to six months there's a true problem there. If I'm doing capital lending and private equity, oh goodness, I can get somebody alone within 30 days. Easy equity partnerships take a little bit longer but by the time term sheets go out and the exchange of dollars and equity, typically, that's a 90 to 100 day sometimes 180 days. So, six months maximum. But I have deal flow constantly coming to me, so I'm seeing turnover once every 90 days.

17:07

Ramesh: That’s great. With so much you're doing, where is your drive coming from, is it motivation? Are you the kind of person who is self-driven? Are there times that you talk to other people to get the motivation, inspiration. Whether other leaders or books. Can you talk a little bit about your drive and motivation?

17:29

Drew: Two things. Because I noticed this early on in my life. What I love about what I do is I'm introduced to new businesses every single day. It doesn't matter if it's cannabis or real estate or information technology as an example, I'm learning different sectors every day and to me, that's very intriguing. But at the heart of it, I have an innate quality where I am just driven. It's that simple and so after I had been terminated, it's really just the self-motivation to say, never again. And so, I'm constantly moving and constantly driving so that that will never occur in my life.

18:22

Ramesh: Wow, that is it's an interesting way to look at some of the events that drive you. Okay so Drew, another question I want to ask you is some of the tools, because, over a period of 16 years, I'm sure you have evolved in the use of the tools in marketing and sales and building your company. What are the tools that you rely on the most?

18:48

Drew: Nobody's ever asked me that question, that's why I'm laughing. I think if I boil it down to a couple of different things, I am enamored with the voice to text technology. So, I am a big advocate of Dragon because that's how I write most of my books. I found Dragon roughly five or six years ago and so rather than keyboard, I actually dictate into the computer and I am able to churn out a book literally within 20 to 30 days easy. And I have a formula as far as how to turn out the book and so once I get the chapters that I want to write, then it's just a matter of putting the text together and so I dictate into the computer and there is my text for the book. SANS you know process visuals and examples and those sorts of things. That's one. Two, I could not live today and I find it intriguing because I turned 57 in February, so I remember the Rolodexes, I remember file cabinets, I remember the index cards and my computer is-- Somebody and I, we were having a conversation the other day, his computer is having some issues, mine is starting to slow down and what I find amazing is I could leave my office and I can take my cell phone with me and my office is with me. Where years ago, it was a daytimer and a computer and a notebook and then this and that. And literally, I can leave, and I can have everything on it. So, I could not live today without a cell phone or accessibility to say, email and definitely Dropbox because that's where my files are. And I'm going to mention Dropbox, I use the cloud because I'm an Apple user. Another tool which I find exceptionally helpful is voice mail. I'm not a big tech store, I do email but I'm big on voice mail. I return calls within 90 minutes and so my theology is that and that is very helpful because I ask to leave a distinct message, I train my folks to leave me important messages so that we're constantly moving it and constantly doing other things. And I guess the last but not least, just because of the modalities that I use both in turnaround, I could not live without either to be fair to everybody, either a Microsoft Office or Google suite simply because I need documents and I write proposals, look at text, do textual information as well as spreadsheets. Income statements, balance sheets, pro formas, those items that are required for me to analyze the business and make some decisions moving forward.

21:40

Ramesh: One theme that come through is that you're the voice guy.

21:44

Drew: Yes, very much so.

21:46

Ramesh: That's interesting. So, I know you've been advising turnaround, like companies already there in existence. Have you advised anybody, people who wanted to start businesses?

21:58

Drew: Yes, I get those sorts of people coming to me every single day. Those that are coming to me that want to start a business, I'll invest a little bit of time. There are some people and that's where I've gotten a little bit more scrupulous of who I do business with because I do ask, and I think this is part of the no more of those that have businesses, Ramesh. That is, I'll give you my time, I'm more than happy to spend say 45 minutes to an hour with somebody, give you some business advice to move forward. There are those though that want to start businesses and so they're constantly thinking, well, it's free and you can get free and that's where I've said, “no you got to come with a checkbook ready to spend” because, yes, there is a ton of content out on the internet but if you're going to start a business and you're looking for assistance in doing so, then you want to find a good advisor that's not only going to give you good advice but then become your accountability partner so that you put together goals you put together the strategies and tactically you're moving forward because there's a lot of money out there unfortunately for business advisors, unfortunately, they don't do much and that's why many businesses fail. Many businesses will succeed when they have the accountability people around them that push that entrepreneurial forward to the finish line.

23:26

Ramesh: That's good. So, what is the starting point? If somebody comes to you for advice, like people listening to this podcast, they're sitting there, they want to start the business, where do you want them to start?

23:37

Drew: I would love it-- I'm not big on business plans. There's a lot of folks that go to school and they'll go to the SBA and they'll spend all of this time, I don't care about business plans. What I want to be able to do is I want to extrapolate the goal, the dream, the vision that you have in your head and I want to put it down on paper and I want to simplify things. And so, what we're going to say is simply this, come to me with your business idea, come to me with your goals and then tell me two things: how many hours are you going to put in without excuse. I don't want to hear I have got children, I've got soccer games because it's very easy to make the excuses and secondly how much money are you going to put into this. How much are you going to say, I'm going to pull from the bank, use credit cards for an accountability coach in order to make this work. When somebody comes to me like that, that's when I'm ready to make a move.

24:37

Ramesh: I mean, how long do you think-- I mean again, it differs from idea to idea but typically, people to start and then build a business?

24:49

Drew: You know, to be fair, the first three years with any business are rough. There are always going to be fits and starts, number one, because of the time commitment and number two, the vision is going to change. I had a woman come to me recently that wanted to start a non-profit, but she really wasn't very clear as far as what the non-profit was going to do. She knew right at the top of her head what the theme of the nonprofit was but how it was going to work and how she wanted it to function, that's where it had most of its fits and starts. Once we were able to glean and really think the tip of the arrow as far as what she wanted to do, that then became easier to put those goals and objectives together. So, I say typically, with somebody who has an idea but is not certain, it's probably going to be six months to a year. My goal though, and I'm not like most business coaches, my goal is to get you started the fastest way possible and remove all of the obstacles so that we can get you to higher levels of success quickly.

25:59

Ramesh: That's why I called my podcast The Agile Entrepreneur. It's like making things quicker. Exactly.

26:06

Drew: And that's why I use the metaphor of business acceleration because I want to get you from first gear into fifth gear as quickly as I can.

26:14

Ramesh: Exactly. I think that is very very crucial because of people who might give up otherwise it takes too long that's correct. So, looking back at your experience in the past, anything that you think you could have done differently that we could learn from?

26:34

Drew: Yes. One, surround yourself with good people but be smart. I mean, if your gut is telling you this person's not it then gets out. My gut usually tells me the right thing and to a certain extent I've stayed in it a little bit too long and I wish that I had surrounded myself with better groups of individuals going forward. Two, stop listening to every piece of advice that's out there because there are so many opinions and now with the internet, every everybody is willing to say anything to you and so it's really easy to get caught up in everyone's advice, especially some of the stupidity that I've seen, if I may, Ramesh on Facebook. “I'm 22 years old and I'm going to retire in two years.” “I made a million dollars in my mommy's garage as a business coaching consulting.” Or “how I went from my dumpster diving to being in a Penthouse apartment in New York.” All of that if I may on your podcast, is balderdash. There's another term for it, it's all bolt. Everybody is just wanting to bring you into their coaching atmosphere. You've got to go on referral, you have got to go with people that you trust and last but not least, and I got caught up with this very early on and then I met a mentor who taught me differently and this was approximately 10 years ago and there’s a good piece of advice to every listener and that is, stop listening to unsolicited feedback. The reason why-- And I'm going to be a little dramatic here but the reason why there's so much suicide amongst the teens out there is that they all listen to each other on social media about what they have and what they plan on having. And all of these dreams and all of these visions-- And I got to tell you, social media is nothing worse than a toilet bowl to a certain extent. Anybody is willing to say whatever they want behind a monitoring keyboard, but they won't be willing to say it in front of you directly and I can't tell you, Ramesh, how many times I've been chopped down for wording that I've used or sentences that have quote-unquote poor punctuation or grammar or didn't like my speech. I got insulted because it's very easy to go down that rabbit hole and so my advice to anybody out there is leave it alone. God puts you on this earth for a reason with an innate set of skills. So, when somebody comes up with unsolicited feedback, there are two things about this: One, they’re not only defaming you, but they're also defaming your Creator. Two, it’s because they can't see it in themselves and so they're envious. Don't get caught up in that garbage, keep moving forward.

29:27

Ramesh: Excellent advice. Drew I mean fantastic actually. So, is there any last-minute parts, anything that I did not ask that you want to share?

29:37

Drew: I think the only thing I want to say especially for those that are starting a business and those that are having some fits and starts, you have a dream and you're going to have a lot of naysayers. People want to see you fail or they'll give you-- They'll see you failing and just want you to stop. If it's in your gut and you have this little voice speaking to you, say, that you think you can and you just have to do this, you have to do that, you know what, keep moving forward. I don't want to sound silly on this comment but there is a line from the movie, sister act 2 with Whoopi Goldberg and I can't remember her name, but it was the lead girl who was a very wonderful singer, but she was in the room, she started to get involved with Whoopi Goldberg in the church and mom did not want her to sing and she said, all though should would have could have is not going to get you a job.” And you know what, you're now seeing to a certain extent on television the manifestation of whatshould would have could have. There are so many people that are out there that want to sing and have never been given an opportunity but now you're seeing shows like American Idol and the voice and song land, people that have had that dream, but I've never been able to do it now they're being given a second chance. What I mean by all of this is that it's very easy to give up. Do not give up on what your dream is. And I say that not only is an entrepreneur who has survived all these years, but it was a track-and-field store that actually came from a dysfunctional home and it's one of those things where my parents never went to attract me, and my parents never routed me on, I stayed late on one track and I wound up setting seven school records and I got my own scholarship to go to school. You asked me before where the drive comes from, that's where a lot of that comes from. It’s my childhood days and I say that now as an example even during my professional speeches to small business owners just because there are others that don't believe in you, you need to believe in you. You need to believe in what you've been given and keep moving through the best way you can.

32:07

Ramesh: Fantastic. Drew I thoroughly, throughly enjoyed this podcast, it's a very inspirational, very motivational and it's based on your experience. It's not like they were just words, okay. Fantastic thank you very much for your time, Drew.

32:20

Drew: It's been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Learning Business Development and Sales Acceleration with Kristie Jones – AEP #15

June 11th, 2019 by
Guest: ​​​​​​​​​​​Kristie Jones

​Company / Business name: ​​​​​​ ​​​Sales Acceleration Group

Kristie Jones the founder of Sales Acceleration Group. Sales Acceleration Group helps tech start-up companies with sales strategy, process, hiring and coaching and training. Kristie has been a solopreneur since 2016 and grateful each day for the ability to do what she loves and help others at the same time!

Show Notes:

2:06 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Adversities could be the mother of opportunities. Grab them.

Kristie talks about she started her company in 2016 when the venture-backed she was working for decided to put sales group under marketing and disbanded her team. Luckily, a prospective client asked her to train/consult with their sales team giving Kristie an opportunity to start on her own.

 

5:49 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Grow your network in a very disciplined manner to grow your business

Kristie talks about the importance of networking and how she realized after some initial LinkedIn network analysis that she needed more local contacts and consciously grew that network. Her first customer as well as initial set of customers who funded her first year with consulting gigs were a direct result of her network.

8:18 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Pricing can be very challenging but agree on value delivered first before pricing

Kristie talks about the initial challenges especially regarding pricing her services. Her coach Mike Weinberg advised her to stay away from hourly pricing and instead focus on pricing for services and products. She gives us a step by step process of writing SOW, pricing the services at a later point of time and ensuring lining up mutual objectives.

12:41 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Have a razor focus on the customer segments you want to service

Kristie talks about her focus on privately funded companies, venture capital companies, and tech / SAS companies instead of spreading all over. She also talks about her process for handling multiple clients simultaneously. Her secret is being super organized.

14:51 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Keep on prospecting for new set of customers to fill the pipeline

Kristie gives advice on power prospecting to fill the top of her sales funnel by engaging in volunteer activities, speaking engagements, CRM system, email marketing.

20:49 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Always have a mix of services and products to grow your business

Kristie talks about packaging her services into some kind of a product (like training session, book etc.) to max her reach. She is working with a network of other entrepreneurs who have done this successfully. Still, Kristie says she enjoys the one-on-one engagements and the need to balance both.

22:32 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Network, join meetups, rely on mentors

Kristie gives advice to would be entrepreneurs to (1) first focus on building your network (2) join local meetups/entrepreneurial groups (3) find right mentors.

24:57 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Be organized in all aspects of your business like prospecting, operations, and staying in touch with your network

Kristie emphasizes the need to stay engaged socially like volunteering, find good networks (in her case prosper for women), find good tools (like Hubspot CRM in her case, and finding support network.

00:01

Ramesh: Hello everyone welcome to the agile entrepreneur podcast. This is your host Ramesh Dontha. This podcast is about starting and building your own business with purpose, passion, perseverance and possibilities. Today I am pleased to introduce our guest Kristie Jones. She runs companies sales acceleration group. Kristie started her company in 2016 and she's been added since then. So sales acceleration group helps tech startup companies with sales strategy, process, hiring and coaching and training. Through my emails with Kristie she seemed to really love her whatever she's doing and then we'll go talk to her more about it. Hi Kristie welcome.

00:53

Kristie: Hey good morning how are you?

00:53

Ramesh: Thank you, thank you I'm doing very well. So Kristie so with a company name like a sales acceleration group, if I'm an entrepreneur or a small business owner, I would love to sign up with you guys. So what do you guys to do?

01:09

Kristie: So hey thanks for that. I really want to help other entrepreneurs accelerate revenue, grow their business. So I specialize in working with small and mid-sized companies, companies that are ready to scale their business, grow their sales team, probably need some additional training, maybe some sales strategy and process help. So I'm kind of a one-stop shop for all things growth for a small and mid-sized business.

01:34

Ramesh: Ok so you started your company in 2016. What were you doing prior to this?

01:40

Kristie: I was working for vc-backed company called gainsight. They're based out of Silicon Valley and to date have taken about 150 million NBC funding. So I was running their sales development representatives group prior to starting my own company.

01:57

Ramesh: So I mean it seems like a pretty nice gig, there is a lot of money. But you decided to leave and then start your own company, why?

02:06

Kristie: A good question, being laid off is the mother of invention. So means I had decided to take the sales development team out from underneath the sales umbrella and put it under the marketing umbrella, which was headquartered in Phoenix Arizona. So they disbanded my team and were very generous and helping me, they compensated me to stay on while they rebuilt the team in another state. At that point I started looking for a new job, as I was doing that and reaching out to people that I thought might need a director or VP of Sales, people started saying to me hey well while you're looking for a new job would you mind training my team or helping me with this or helping me with that and so all of a sudden I started to have clients while I was transitioning away from gainsight. I say the universe conspired and I had always wanted to have my own consulting business, but I have a child and my son was still in high school. So it didn't seem like the timing was right. But things started happening on their own without me really pushing in that direction, so I jumped in with both feet and it's been a blessing ever since.

03:14

Ramesh: Is this your first company or did you ever do another company before this?

03:19

Kristie: Nope this is my very first company .

03:20

Ramesh: So that is a huge move. I mean you getting a steady income. But even though you had some clients coming in, so what were the initial steps that you took to you know formally start your company?

03:33

Kristie: Great question, I started with a couple of companies. I partnered with a VC firm here in st. Louis cultivation capital and they helped me by putting me in touch with some entrepreneurs that had maybe recently gotten series A funding and I really, I was still looking for a full-time job when I kind of started helping other companies. But I quickly realized that I had all of the skills that these companies needed, a lot of founders have a great idea as I say right so they have a engineering or development background, so they have a great product handle. But they've maybe never been in sales and marketing and so it became apparent to me very quickly that my skill set in having that background in sales and a little bit in marketing was very valuable to them and they really started to rely on me to help set sales strategy, come up with process, put sales tools in place. So you know I found I had some really good support early on, one of my very first clients was a former partner at another company I'd worked at. And he said to me I really want you to do this and as a result I will pay you up to 30 hours a week to work with my team or as little as 10 hours a week. So he basically kind of helped fund me till I got off the ground and got on my feet and again I could never be more grateful for that.

04:54

Ramesh: So you didn't have to go for external sources of funding or you didn't have to put up your own money, is that right>

05:03

Kristie: That's correct, I didn't ironically enough and I'm happy to

And proud to share this, but I doubled my income in the first year of being a consultant from my previous job at gainsite. So I again like I said my story is probably not as typical as other people who maybe struggled a little, bit but I really felt like I had the right connections and I had done the right thing i've always been somebody that's been willing to help others and I feel like when I stepped forward and needed help people came forward to help me.

05:30

Ramesh: You know honestly the more I talk to people, they're entrepreneurs one of the threads that keeps coming through in multiple podcasts is this networking connections. Like so people have been building those connections throughout and then suddenly they you know help out in starting their businesses.

05:49

Kristie: Yeah I think it's critical. One of the things that I had really worked hard on, this was, gain site was not the first time I had been laid off. I had been with another company called network solutions that was purchased by web.com and I lost my job as a result of that acquisition as well and when that happened to me the first time and that was several years before the gain site situation, I didn't have a good network in st. Louis. I had been working for companies that had a nationwide or global presence and I really had not done a good job of building my network in my own backyard, I didn't grow up here in st. Louis. So linkedin at the time had a little analysis you could do of your contacts and 65% of my contacts were from outside the state of Missouri. I had made a conscious effort at that point to never let, you know never let that happen again to where I couldn't reach into my own Network in my own backyard. So from that point forward I started building my st. Louis Network and I really don't enjoy in fairness, I don't enjoy networking. I think it's a little stressful. But I started meeting with people one-on-one instead of going to big group events and kind of telling my story and got more and more involved in the tech community here in st. Louis and so when it was time for me to go out on my own, I had the right resources and people to help.

07:06

Ramesh: So the tip that you're sharing that I'm getting out of this conversation is that if somebody is not very comfortable with networking because of you know whatever is associated with that word, so don't focus on the big groups, but focus more than one on one kind of settings which you are more comfortable with to network.

07:25

Kristie: Yeah it really worked for me. I think you know it's a nice, you're having a one-on-one conversation, there arent a lot of people around you, you don't feel self-conscious and I feel like you can get more focused with that individual and learn a little bit more about them too. I gotten better but I still struggled in a big room with people and trying to figure out who to grow up, go up and introduce myself to. I think that to me is the biggest stressor in looking at the room with you know 75 people and not knowing who to start with.

07:53

Ramesh: Honestly I could imagine myself from another side, when I really thrive in a group settings but I could not clearly see myself with the complete set of strangers who do I go and talk to.

08:04

Kristie: Right where do I start.

08:08

Ramesh: Right but now you're making this starting a business you know too easy for me. So what challenges did you actually face throughout since 2016?

08:18

Kristie: Yeah great question. Again I had amazing resources. One of my early mentors is a man named Mike Weinberg who has written a couple of sales book, sales simplified and sales management simplified and I met him because he was consulting at a company that I'd eventually ended up consulting in and so we overlapped for a while. So some of the biggest challenges I had first was, I didn't know how to price anything. So I had never done anything like this. I didn't know how to charge clients or my knowledge, my time and he was a great and so grateful to him for sharing all the time he did with me. But he said you know hey do you want to be a lawyer when you grow up and they said oh no I don't want to be a lawyer when I grow up. He said well don't charge like one then. Do not charge an hourly rate. He goes charge a products, you know a project rate or charge a retainer rate. He said but don't charge your clients by the hour, he goes what are you gonna do when a founder calls you, you know it's 7 o'clock at night on a Wednesday and wants 20 minutes of your time. He goes when you build them for that it will feel very disagreeable to them, but they just you know quickly hold you and you know in an evening and got charged for that. So that was amazing advice. You know he also helped me put my first contracts together. So that was sort of a challenge is how do I write this up. So he walked me through that and told me to start by kind of building a statement of work, an SOW and then you know so what you know my strategy today I'm happy to share with all of your listeners is I send out my, you know once i've met and done a discovery call with a potential client, I go back and I put my statement of work together. But I don't put a price tag on at that point. So I send it back to the prospect and say hey this is what I heard from you, these are all the things I think that you want me to help you with, but I want you to red line this document if that's not the case. So if you've decided after everybody slept on it a couple of days, if you don't want me to help in this area or you'd like additional help in another area, let's go ahead and get the SOW knocked out. Then when they send it back to me and I make the changes to it, then i'll put a price associated with it. I had no issues with this whatsoever. I think it saves a couple of of heartaches. One being people who see the price I can kind of freak out and then say well let's not do this piece and let's not do this piece and let's undo this piece. You know the bottom line is they've had another opportunity to think it through, they know that this is really what they need. You know and then when I put a price attached to it, I get very little price resistance at that time. So you know those are some of the early challenges.

10:46

Ramesh: That is a really good strategy. They already bought into the solution. Now just a negotiation over the price .

10:51

Kristie: Correct and really I have very little pushback on that. Because I think by then I built the value and again and if they feel like part of the process right, I mean I think too many companies just send out their written agreement without you know everything I do is customize. Which also I think makes a big difference right. So it's a standard project for a standard you know hiring you know hiring help or training session. So I customize to the client and I think it you know I really I have had very little pushback on price and I think it's a result of including them in the process and helping build that value.

11:27

Ramesh: So actually that is another thread also comes to having some mentor somebody who really a coach somebody who can, how did you find Mike?

11:36

Kristie: Yeah Mike again the universe brought Mike to me. He was consulting at a company that I was interviewing for a full-time position. So as I mentioned I wasn't thinking about going into consulting. I was looking for a VP of Sales job and once when I interviewed with this company and then things started to happen, I kind of went back to the I was a husband-and-wife team and I went back to them and said hey I think I may want to do some consulting instead of doing a full-time VP of Sales job and they're like, well we're working with the consultant, why don't you meet with him and see what you think. I really didn't, I mean I knew Mike. Because I had read his book sales simplified with my sales team at gain site. But I had never met him, I knew he was a local and we had coffee over at Panera and he was a fan. Like he was on my team from the get-go, he felt like we had a lot of the same philosophies about sales and he really advocated for me and he helped me get that job.

12:33

Ramesh: Excellent Wow. So that's good. Then you started going through the business. So who are your target customers?

12:41

Kristie: Yeah great idea or a great question. I really want to stay in my swim lane as I call it. So I want to stay in the areas that i've been successful when I was doing a full-time VP of sales job. Which is BC back tour PE back. So funded privately owned companies with a SAS or software or services solution. So I try very hard to stay in my swim lane, occasionally I only work with private companies. So I haven't really done work with public companies. I think there's plenty of other good consultants out there that would be a better fit for that. I really do understand the small a nd mid size and private company, i've been in that space for 20 years. So that's really the swimlane i want to stay in.

13:21

Ramesh: So are you working one customer at a time or do you have multiple sets of customers?

13:26

Kristie: Now great question. I'm working four or five customers at a time. Somebody I met with a BC company yesterday a managing partner and he said how are you managing all that?

13:37

Ramesh: Yeah that's my question actually.

13:39

Kristie: I'm super organized. I know I have taken on over the last you know three and a half years, at one point I had six customers and that's too many and I know based on the project. So in some cases I'm helping companies hire, in other cases I'm doing evaluations of their current sales strategy and process. Sometimes I'm doing ongoing training with their team or one-on-one coaching with a particular rep and so I do manage four or five customers at a time. I keep a very tight calendar. I'm very organized. One of my first clients you know was again after doing this with me for about eight months said the same thing. He said he goes, you can switch gears really quickly. Like when I asked you about sales you know what my numbers are and you're not confusing them with other people's numbers and I really do think that the skill set there is just as, our boys had a very strong organizational skills and and keeping that all straight and then knowing what you can handle. So when I got to six customers one time, it caused a lot of stress and I was working seven days a week, that really wasn't good for anybody.

14:36

Ramesh: So definitely being organized helps with the time management and all. But being an owner of your company, do you feel you're overwhelmed with other things like accounting and things that you have to do?

14:51

Kristie: You know, I don't spend a ton of time on the accounting piece. I think things that stress me out are prospecting. So you asked earlier about early challenges, you know in the last year or so the biggest challenge i've had is i've been so busy that I forgot to fill my top of the funnel. I wasn't drinking my own kool-aid and towards the end of the year last year all of a sudden that was down to three customers and I had, literally I say to people like when one door closed, two doors had been opening for me. I was having choices and all of a sudden I'm down to three clients, which again for most people probably sounds fine, but that wasn't what I was used to and so I have been in a power prospecting mode. So I think the thing that I lost sight of that was a big miss for me was that I had not been actively networking and meeting people and since the first of the year i've been trying to meet with at least two people a week to introduce myself and I also do a lot of volunteering. So there are two, there's some tech accelerators or startups here, companies here in town. So I mentor for a group called I10, which helps new entrepreneurs in the st. Louis and Midwest region and then another last pass or another accelerator here in town, I'm just gonna start doing some mentoring with them as well. And I'm sorry not lastpass, multipass, lastpass is my security system. Multipass and so you know even doing those kind of things helps me meet people in a comfortable environment for me. So I love giving back, but it also allows me to get more involved in the tech community and meet people that I might not otherwise meet on my own.

16:27

Ramesh: Actually I'm very curious. Because this is one of the challenges for many companies, this power prospecting. So you were down to three customers and then what specific things did you do? I mean you talked about volunteering and then meeting at least two people a week kind of stuff, are those the things that you did to build your pipeline?

16:47

Kristie: Yeah I did a few things. Ironically enough as the queen of the CRM systems for other people I didn't have my own CRM system. So again like again I was not drinking my own kool-aid. So I went and got hubspot, which is a free CRM system and one that I recommend for a lot of my clients. So I went and got and download it and got hubspot up and running. I went back, I had again because I'm super organized, I had kept a folder of prospects all these years. So I had a folder in my Gmail that just said prospects and so I went back to that folder and all of the people I had talked to who nothing had come to fruition for one reason or another and so I put them all on hubspot and I started a monthly newsletter. So I thought you know I need to reach out to people one-on-one as I was mentioning, but I also again not being the mass networking friend, I wanted to make sure I was touching people on a regular basis. So I started a monthly newsletter. That forced me to to blog for my own website once a month as well as give tips and tricks. I have a section of my newsletter about upcoming tech startup or tech events in the Midwest area. So you know, when I send a bunch of emails out to people that were on that prospect in that prospect folder and just said hey I wanted to touch base with you, see what's new with you, here's what's new with me, here are some of the things I'm doing now that I wasn't doing three years ago and in other ways that I'm helping. So it's really all about again I think consistent communication and you know the pressure of putting the newsletter out every month is really going to keep me consistent with keeping in touch with prospects that maybe go back three or four years.

18:21

Ramesh: So actually that's very good going through the specific things, thank you very much on that one. So during these years what there are times where you had to find some external source of motivation. You thought what am i doing? Why am i doing? Previous life was better and then somebody helped you get out of that or somehow you found the internal drive, were there moments like that?

18:47

Kristie: Yeah I mean I think the end of last year was one of those moments and going into early 2019. I mean I did I got panicky and I said to a friend, I may have to go back and get a real job and at that point when I said it out loud, the shame gremlin went away if you will. So like once I said it out loud, all of a sudden there was some relief of not hiding that fear anymore and then that's when I really said this, this is insane. I have a lot of value I can bring the clients. But people just need to know that I'm available. Because i've been so busy people always kind of worried about that and I think some people kind of steered away from me, because they heard I was running four and five clients at a time. So I kind of put that to bed and said, hey listen this is completely under my control and I really didn't want to go find a new full-time job. I really loved what I was doing and so I you know I set out to find new people. I went you know I started spending some time in Kansas City. I have now a client in Indianapolis. So you know the other thing is maybe you know why would I be staying in the st. Louis area, I can help people in other areas. I'd already had a client up in Indianapolis in my first year of business. But I hadn't really cultivated that city and so you know now I'm actively you know spending time in Indianapolis again, because I have, I grew up in Kansas and have relatives in Kansas City and spending time in Kansas City. So I think just acknowledging that that fear was there and that it really was under my control and that I had to you know and again, I had to drink my own kool-aid. I mean you know how hypocritical of me to go into other people's companies and tell them that you know scarcity in your pipeline causes bad decisions, I always say panic cause bad decisions and that's a result of not having a big enough pipeline and it is terrifying. I mean it truly is.

20:34

Ramesh: Yeah so is there an opportunity in your business. It looks like it these clients need your time. But is there an opportunity for you to package these services into some kind of a product as opposed to a service?

20:49

Kristie: Ramesh you have been listening to my secret talk. I have been giving this some thought. I am thinking about writing a book. I have reached out to a couple of people that I think can help me and i also think maybe some online courses. What I really, i'll be honestly with you there. People in my circle, again I have a lot of, I belong to a consultant group across the United States called women sales pros and again it's an exclusive group of about 50 of us across the country who do what I do and a lot of them have, as you said packaged what they do. Y I think the thing I love most about what I do is that I get to get kind of get my hands dirty and really dig in and I really feel like I am kind of part of the team for the time that I'm there. I fight myself with the do I want to do one too many, where I can touch so many more people with my you know skillset and my thoughts and my strategies. So I think it's a blend for me. But I think the most important thing for me will always be one-on-one contact with the client as opposed to you know packaging it in an e-learning course. Although I think the book is something that I do want to do, that I'm starting to get passionate about. I think it's gonna be a balance for me. But I don't think I want to commercialize it to the extent where you know where I'm not getting one-on-one contact with the client anymore.

22:12

Ramesh: Yeah because that drives you, you enjoy that.

22:16

Kristie: That is my passion.

22:18

Ramesh: Exactly that's good. So I am an entrepreneur, man or a woman sitting at home and I have a job. So what can you tell me that I should do if I want to start my business?

22:32

Kristie: Well I am not encouraging you to get laid off. That is a very stressful way of doing this and you know what? I think you need to get your network together. I really do believe that that is a key. So if you were to do like I guess kind of think about it the way it happened with me though, if you were to lose your job tomorrow and you didn't want to find another replacement job and you wanted to go out and live the dream that you have of being an entrepreneur, who would you need to call? Who would be the first people that you would reach out to that could really help you, maybe emotionally, maybe financially, maybe make introductions for you, maybe they're experts in the industry. So I think you really do have to build your network. I think I didn't give that enough credit until it was there. I mean I had been building it, but I didn't know how valuable it really was until I needed it. And then find an entrepreneurial group, a meet-up in your city and start attending those meetings. Because there's no reason to reinvent the wheel, there's no reason to make mistakes that other entrepreneurs have already made. Like I didn't have to build a contract or go to a lawyer to get a contract from scratch. I had a mentor that helped me through that. I didn't have to figure out the pricing all on my own, I had a mentor to help me do that. So you know building your network I think is one of the key things and really understanding what the competitive landscape looks like. I get calls all the time from people who want to meet with me and what I want to hear my story and my story is I think a little unique to other people. But I say to them like it doesn't feel like competition to me and people are like are you worried about giving your secret sauce away? I am like, no because there's so many companies that need help. Like I say to other people like the water is warm, come on in and I think the more companies that use consultants, the more business they'll be for consultants right? So I think surrounding yourself with the right people, you know I also I'm a huge lifelong learner. You know grab books, grab podcasts, I'm well-known of saying you know I believe in that theory you'll be as successful as the five closest people to you. So I believe in surrounding yourself with the right people that can help you achieve the dream that you're looking for.

24:38

Ramesh: Excellent I mean I 100% believe in that one Kristie. So you talked about the email and the newsletter that you started letting somewhat later. So things like that, things you wish you could have done sooner to build your business, anythings that you can think of?

24:57

Kristie: I mean I think that's a key one. I think getting more involved in the tech community a little bit earlier than I did, I had a very good network, but I wasn't, I had started mentoring for a womens called prosper for women. So women funding other women in their own companies. I wish been a little more volunteering early on, i've definitely gotten full into the volunteering. I've always taught junior achievement. So volunteering has always been important to me and i've always kind of been on the teaching side of volunteerism. I sure wish I got in a hubspot earlier. I was already really organized, but hubspot just took that to another level for me. I really think I wish I had run my business like I was telling other people to run their businesses. I think that was kind of, I felt like things were falling in my lap so quickly I wasn't really building some of the foundational pieces, like a CRM system, like a newsletter. So I think you know like I said taking my own advice earlier might have been wise.

25:54

Ramesh: Yeah that's good ,that's good. That's funny the way you say it. So Christie anything else that you want to share with the listeners?

26:00

Kristie: No I just encourage anybody. I mean again it isn't an easy road. Please make sure you have support. You know I'm a fairly independent strong-willed person and so I probably don't need, I don't need as much support as maybe others would. But make sure you've got that base of people. I spent a lot of time calling people at odd hours of the day and night early on saying what about this, what about this. Yesterday, as a recent example yesterday I had a prospect say, hey just sent over the contract you know on docusign. I'll get it turned around, well I don't have docusign, I don't have anything like that. So I reached out to two other entrepreneurial friends, I'm like are you guys using docusign and they said no, but this is what we're using. So you know I mean every day I use my network for all kinds of crazy things, including just what I call tactical housekeeping items like yesterday and I found, one of my entrepreneur friends pointed me in another direction with a free application and I got my contracts you know sent over in a you know in an electronic format that was what the prospect needed.

27:00

Ramesh: Excellent, that's very good. Kristie fantastic, this in my podcast the sales acceleration is one of, you are the first in that area. It's exciting what's happening in your area and thank you very much for your time.

27:14

Kristie: I really appreciate the opportunity, thank you so much for inviting me to join you.

Building Businesses with Business advisor, coach, and author Joellyn Sargent – AEP #14

June 11th, 2019 by
Guest: ​​​​​​​​​​​Joellyn Sargent

​Company / Business name: ​​​​​​ ​​​Claravon Group LLC

Joellyn Sargent spent years as a marketing executive, building the life everyone said she “should” have. In spite of her success, it felt like something was missing. So in 2010 she left the rat race and followed her heart, helping passionate entrepreneurs succeed in business and in life. Joellyn is the author of Beyond the Launch: The Practical Guide to Building a Business that Thrives. Her latest adventure was a 7 months sabbatical in 2018, which she spent hiking 1800 miles of the Appalachian Trail.

Show Notes:

2:46 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Never give up. Keep looking for the right opportunities.

Joellyn talks about her entrepreneurial journey where she is now on her 3rd business having started her first business when she was 26. She has applied all her learnings from her first ventures along with her corporate experience in marketing. The mortgage industry meltdown few years ago provided her the needed motivation to start her 3rd venture.

5:45 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Keep investing into the business during its formative years.

Joellyn explains the experience of getting her first customer from outside her network and how it gave her enough confidence to jump right in. She talks about the need to invest into the business and how she kept investing in mentors so she could expand her consulting business instead of just doing projects like website design etc.

9:06 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Strategically quit projects when they are not working out to keep reinventing yourself

Joellyn talks about the first two years of roller coaster ride with her business and how she has weathered them. She talks about what she called ‘strategic quitting’ where one should entertain strategically quitting few projects or engagements if they are not working out.

12:52 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Don’t be afraid to fire bad clients

Joellyn etalks about the need to find right customers and not any customer as bad clients ‘breed bad clients’. It is important to ensure that you are happy working with the right clients so the entrepreneurial journey is worthwhile.

14:17 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Entrepreneurial journey is about personal growth and self-discovery and not just about freedom and income.

Joellyn explains the characteristics of business owners who succeed. They are (1) introspective (2) open minded (3) desire to grow (4) indulge in self-reflection.

17:29 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Keep refining your target customers to find your ideal set of customers

Joellyn talks about the sweet spot customers who are business owners who either are starting out or on their second or third journey. She also wants to consult with business owners whose business may have been going well for some time but now has slowed down.

22:59 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Reflect on what you want to do that customers will pay for

Joellyn wants would-be entrepreneurs to think about 3 things on their way to a successful journey (1) Is this what you want to do? (2) Would customers pay for what you want to do? (3) Are you in this for the long term? The scariest part of your journey is when you quit your day job so you should be ready for that with these answers.

24:58 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Reflect on what you want to do that customers will pay for

Joellyn reflects on her experience and gives advice to balance between brand building and revenue. As an example, her focus on speaking engagements (where she was not paid) were not a path to revenue in few cases and she says she should have cut down those kinds of engagements.  Joellyn talks about the amazing but scary journey of being an entrepreneur and encourages all to do it instead of sitting on the sidelines.

00:01

Ramesh: Hello everyone, welcome to the agile entrepreneur podcast. This is your host Ramesh Dontha. This podcast is about starting and building your own business with purpose, passion, perseverance and possibilities. Today we have a guest who actually helps other entrepreneurs how to build their businesses. Her name is Joellyn Sargent. Joellyn spent years as a corporate marketing executive. Building the life everyone said she should have. In spite of her success, it felt like something was missing so she left her cushy job in 2010 and left the rat-race as well and followed her heart helping passionate entrepreneurs succeed in business and in life. Joellyn is also the author of a book Beyond the launch; the practical guide to building a business that thrives. Her latest adventure was a seven-month sabbatical in 2018, where in which she spent hiking 1,800 miles of the Appalachian Trail. Wow that is interesting. So Joellyn welcome to a podcast.

01:20

Joellyn: Well thank you very much. I'm happy to be here with you.

01:22

Ramesh: Wow 1,800 miles.

01:25

Joellyn: Yes, that's a lot you know and the whole trail is almost 2200 and I really really wanted to finish. But unfortunately, it wasn't in the cards.

01:32

Ramesh: Wow I mean why did you think about this? Why Appalachian Trail? Why hiking 1,800 miles?

01:40

Joellyn: Partly because I was getting a little bit bored with my work and I felt like I needed to do something really cool and it may sound a little bit morbid. But I don’t want to die having not done anything really unique. I don't live too far from the southern of the trail in Georgia. So, I met people who hiked and I just though that sounds like something really need to do and I would want to challenge myself and figure out if I can do it, you know if I have what it takes, and I did learn that lesson. I mean I do believe that I have what it takes even though I didn't quite finish that I had some health issues and some other things come up during the trip that slowed me down. But it turned out to be a really great experience and I learned a lot that I could bring back to my business, which I wasn't expecting. It's a very pleasant surprise.

02:24

Ramesh: Yeah, I mean actually I hear about it, people who climb Mount Everest and all the kinds of things and bring a lot to their business. You look like adventurous persons seeking adventures, so how did your business adventure start in 2010? Why you wanted to quit, and did you have in your mind what you wanted to do when you quit?

02:46

Joellyn: I did actually, and this is my third business. I started my first business, I was 26 and I had a new baby and we had actually just lost our home in a hurricane and, so we decided to relocate, and I said, well if we're going to move I might as well just start fresh and start a business and so I had a marketing agency at that time. But we did it in a small town and unfortunately, I didn't realize the dynamics of being in a small town where you're not from and so there were definitely some challenges there and it was successful. But then at the same time I was realized I was kind of fighting the tide a little bit in terms of some of the local connections and I was losing business opportunities to people who hire their brother-in-law and things like that. So, I went from that into corporate, actually working with United Parcel Service corporate. So that was a huge change to jump back into corporate. But I learned so much in corporate life and I even had a sideline business for a while, my second business was more of an online business doing you know fair trade arts and crafts and that was fun, but it was a little bit more of a hobby and, so I always had it back in the back of my mind I want to go out and do it again. But I want to use everything that I’ve learned both in corporate and in my two other ventures to do it right and to do in a way that really satisfies what I'm looking for out of life and not just you know business just to make money. So, I knew that I wanted to start a consultancy, but I didn’t, and I wanted to bring my marketing, my branding experience to the table, but I didn't want to be a marketing agency and I was in a position where I was fortunate enough to see my layoffs coming, I was actually working in the mortgage business. So, I knew that my time was limited. When the mortgage meltdown that happened a few years ago was just, it was in full swing and so it's okay yeah, I can see the writing on the wall, but I'm going to work as hard as I can, save as much money as I can, so the day that that axe falls the next day I couldn't put out my shingle and be ready for business and that's what I did.

04:50

Ramesh: So, when you actually started your business second time, the more recent one I'm talking about, did you already have your clientele in hand or you left the job and then you started actually starting from scratch?

05:07

Joellyn: Pretty much from scratch. I didn't have my clientele. But I did have a pretty strong network and, so it probably took me about a month just to get my web site up and running and get my business cards ordered and things like that, to really get out there and start soliciting new business. But then I just really started talking to everybody that I knew spreading the word about what I was doing and just started drumming up business right away.

05:31

Ramesh: So was it like the one customer, the first customer that gave me the confidence or you had a slew of customers coming at the same time. If you could talk about the initial journey of the first customer, please.

05:45

Joellyn: It started slow. But I did have confidence that it would happen and actually one of my first customers was not somebody in my network, it was somebody that was referred to me. So that was kind of cool that while somebody who doesn't even know me, it's got the face to hire me. That gave me extra confidence and I think I did have some confidence. Because I knew I could win business, I had done it in the past with my prior company and, so I knew that it could happen. It was just a matter of you how do I make it happen.

06:14

Ramesh: So, then you started the business and then you started from your strengths, which is your marketing and branding and that kind of stuff. But what are the areas that you felt uncomfortable in running your business?

06:27

Joellyn: Oh, that's a good question. I think sales has always been something that I haven't been a hundred percent comfortable with and really focusing on consulting work, because I had worked consultatively in corporate. But I had not been a consultant and so I felt like I had a lot to learn in terms of how do you run a consulting business versus a business where you're doing projects for people and that was a challenge, because while I was learning I found that I would tend to fall back into that comfort zone of, oh yeah I can create a website for you or I can help you put your social media marketing together and things like that, because they were easy. Which in hindsight was not a bad thing, because that revenue coming in as I was building more focus on the consulting work. So, I entered it in a way that it was very an evolutionary process as I grew the business. But I did identify some very strong mentors to help me develop that consulting expertise and as the money came in, I made the decision to invest in some of those mentors rather than just saying oh you know the scarcity mind, if I don't have money I can't hire anybody to help me. I said I'm going to put more money into my business and it's myself and that's a step of faith too. To say okay I'm going to spend you know sometimes thousands of dollars on getting coaching or getting support from somebody, but I think that's critical if you recognize what you don't know you've got to figure out how to learn it, how to learn it. Not only quickly, but learn it well.

07:52

Ramesh: Right Joellyn in that area actually I myself have experienced and many people told me they've experienced is finding the right mentor. Because you know you go from one mentor, one coach to another and then you get disappointed, after a while you kind of give up. I mean how did you find the right mentors?

08:11

Joellyn: It is a little bit of trial and error. Because you've got to find somebody that you mesh with, but at the same time you're not looking for a friend. So, you have to have that mutual respect. You have to you understand and believe and have faith that they can identify some of your challenges and help you figure out what's best for you. But then at the same time you have to be able to just kind of swallow hard and be like yeah maybe I don't like this advice, but I respect this person enough to take it and I think if you're in a situation with a mentor where you don't respect them, or you don't trust them, then that's not a good relationship and you need to get out and go work with somebody else. But sometimes you don't know that till you start working with somebody. You might think they're great and then you start working together and figure out it's not a match made in heaven and time to regroup you know.

08:57

Ramesh: Right right yeah so along those lines I mean how long did it actually take for you to feel comfortable with your business?

09:06

Joellyn: I think I felt comfortable from the beginning. But there's always that discomfort or that uncertainty of not knowing what the future holds and not knowing you know are you going to beat the odds. Most businesses fail in two years, am I going to get past that? So there were milestones that I guess made me nervous and one thing that I really had to kind of learn to live into is the fact that when you're self-employed when you're a solopreneur, it is a bit of a roller coaster ride and so there are going to be times that are great and times that are slow and rather than kind of wallowing in self-pity when the business is slow, I said I'm going to ride the roller coaster and I'm going to recognize when things start to slow down, that's time for me to invest in my business. That's time for me to work on projects that I haven't been working on and use that time to fuel the growth that I knew then would be coming around the corner.

10:00

Ramesh: Yeah actually I'm talking about the down times. I'm sure there are times like for many of us that you thought to yourself that man it's not working out. I probably I'm going to quit or something. So, question is doing you go through those moments or it's been a smooth ride, that's the number one. Number two, if you did have those down times how did you get over them?

10:25

Joellyn: Well I kind of think that anybody who tells you that their business has been smooth sailing all the way is lying. Yeah you like life. It might go great for two years and you might have a really rough year. And yeah, I definitely had those times and it's funny that you say that about quitting, because I was thinking this morning about writing a blog post about that. You know how do you know when to quit and I'm a believer also in what I call strategic quitting, where there are certain things where you have to say okay I tried this and it's not working and I'm making a strategic decision to not continue and that's not failure, that's just being smart you know. But yeah no I definitely had some of those tough times and I’ve had days where as you walk out of a meeting with a client and you're like that just did not go well and you just go sit in your car and cry.

11:11

Ramesh: But how did I get over them?

11:12

Joellyn: I think I'm an optimist at heart and I think that helps a lot. Sometimes I just let myself wallow in it. yeah this really stinks, but I'm going to give myself a day to be miserable or I'm going to go do something fun and get some perspective and then I'm going to come back at it. But I’ve never had days where I thought I just need to quit you know. Because I'm too passionate about what I do, now there have been definitely days where I’ve been okay I need to reassess, and think is this the right path, or do I need to shift a little bit and honestly my business has been in constant evolution for the whole nine years that I’ve been in business. Partly because I'm constantly looking for what's going to make me happy as well as what kind of work, you know if I'm happy I can do better work for my clients. So, I always want to be happy with what I'm doing so that I can do a better job for my clients and I also want to respond to what their needs are and their needs change. I mean over the past nine years things and business have changed a lot and, so I have to be responsive to that and I’ve also learned to really really focus on my target customers and who that should be versus you know it's so easy to say okay I can work for everybody or I can work for anybody and I’ve been constantly refining and refining and refining to get more and more focused on who that person is for me and that's helped a lot.

12:28

Ramesh: Actually, that is a very interesting idea that bring in. Because many people I’ve been talking to for the podcast series they talked about finding the right customer, not any customer. Like one of the you know guest said she had to fire some customers. I mean did you have to go through that exercise of selecting your customers?

12:52

Joellyn: Absolutely and that is very good advice and actually I tell my coaching clients is that you know bad customers breed more bad customers. Because what happens if you're working with people who aren't a good fit, number one, you're not doing your best work. Number two, you're not happy and number three, they're going to refer you to people who are just like them. Who are just going to make you unhappier. Yeah so because referrals are so important in almost any business you want to be working for the right people who are going to refer you more people like them. So, it is super important to understand who your best clients are, who are your best customers and it's also a lot more fun to work with those people and I mean that's a big thing for me. Cause if I wasn't having fun doing what I’ve been doing, then I should just go work somebody else and collect a paycheck and be done with it. But yeah, I mean I have some great client relationships people I’ve worked with for several years and it's so much fun to just see their business develop, see them grow, see their success and they give me good feedback too. Because we've built that relationship over time. So, if they think I'm not doing something that's going to serve them, they'll tell me as well. So, it's nice to have a little bit of a two-way communication of how can we both grow together by helping each other in different areas.

14:02

Ramesh: Excellent. So, as you're working through so many entrepreneurs what kinds of a characters or attributes that you're seeing in these people that are you know differentiating the successful ones from the ones who are not doing well?

14:17

Joellyn: A lot of it is mindset. I'm actually rereading the book by Carol Dweck on mindset. Because it's really really good. But it's the positive attitude and the understanding that even if things are not going well, you have the power to turn it around. Because if an entrepreneur kind of has the mindset that things aren't going well, and everybody hates me, or their world is against me or I'm a failure or I could never get better, then they're not going to be able to grow and entrepreneurship is definitely, it’s a journey of growth and self-discovery as much as it is a journey to freedom and income. So, I think that ability to be introspective, ability to be open minded and the desire to grow is really critical.

15:02

Ramesh: I mean talking about the self-discovery and entrepreneur like looking at your own journey, like you said you always wanted to be an entrepreneur. So, the question to you is why? What is your why? Why you want to be an entrepreneur?

15:19

Joellyn: I was asking that question and I didn’t even know why. I mean I think I really craved that freedom and that independence to design my own lifestyle and I think that was a big part of it. I mean I really really enjoyed corporate and a lot of the work I was doing, a lot of the travel that I got to do. But I wanted to be kind of the designer of my own destiny and even though I didn't know exactly what that was going to look like, I just knew that was something that I had to do. Because I think you know your called to entrepreneurship when you can't not do it.

15:55

Ramesh: that's interesting. So, talking about little bit about your business. So, if you could talk about who are your target customers and what are the services that you offer?

16:06

Joellyn: My target customers are people who are starting a business and it may not be their first business, they might be kind of in my shoes. But they know that they need some guidance in getting the business up and running and also people who had a business for a while that either just aren't complete and satisfied with how it's going or that just feel like they want to aim higher or do something really really distinctive and dramatic and, so they really want to stand out in their business and they need some help doing that. So, this is a key thing for me narrowing my business focus is just realizing that I am only going to work with business owners and not marketing executives and things like that. So that’s what I do is I just roll up my sleeves and we develop a very close partnership and I work with them either in a coaching capacity to help them get through some of their challenges, some of their fears, some of the things they don't know, some of their marketing and branding issues. But then I also do consulting projects. So particularly with a business that's been around for a little while, they may come to me wow! We were growing great and it slowed down, now what do I do? And so, then I come in and maybe look with them and really figure out, asking a lot of really tough questions sometimes to figure out what is it that's holding them back and try to remove those roadblocks, so they can get back on that path of growth.

17:19

Ramesh: So, I mean how does Joellyn Sargent differentiate herself from other people who may be doing similar things?

17:29

Joellyn: That's really a key and it's not just for me, it's for anybody who's doing similar work and it took me a long time to understand this. But what really differentiates you is not what you know, but your perspective and how you do what you do. So, there may be a lot that I don’t have to do but very little what I do. Plenty of them out there in the world. But nobody's going to have the same relationship with the client that I have and they're not going to think of things the same way, they're not going to have the same point of view or the same perspectives and what that means is that some people are going to mess with me as a client in a wonderful way and other people, yeah that's not for me. But that's okay, because it's about what's that relationship, how does that relationship with me and them how does that work? How does work, how does that help your business grow.

18:15

Ramesh: So Joellyn that's interesting. Because the things that we talked about are some of the softer qualities. Like how do you communicate that to somebody that like me comes to you and says, I'm looking for a coach or a consultant. But how do you communicate to me that you are the person that I should work with.

18:36

Joellyn: Yeah, I talk with them a lot about their you know mindset and things that are going on emotionally. Because I'm such a big believer that so much of business is wrapped up in that. I mean it's your life, that's how you're spending your life and so when I talk to people that and if they get to they have that feeling you know and that's some of the questions I'm asking are resonating and like yeah, I'm not quite happy or yes this isn't what I thought it was going to be, but I know it could be better. Then that's a clue that maybe we should be working together. So, I can quantify that, and I can tell them, okay you know I’ve had clients that have made it to the Inc 500 list. I've had clients that have one of them and six months of working together, he hit over half a million in revenues and I can give them those numbers, but that's not a promise that they're going to have the same results. So, I can give great examples of here are our customers that I’ve worked with in the past. But if somebody is looking at working with me is not willing to roll up their sleeves and do the work themselves and be open and willing to take some risks, then they're not going to have the same results.

19:35

Ramesh: So, coming to your own personality apart from yourself who else supported you unconditionally, who was your inspiration? Who was your motivation to do the things that you're doing in your life?

19:50

Joellyn: You know the number one support team is my husband. Because he's indulged me, leaving that cushy job and starting on my own. He is not a risk taker. So, I give him a lot of credit for you kind of stepping back and letting me do my thing. But my mentor of Allen Weiss, who's very well known in consulting circles is he really was very influential for me. As well just some other, yeah I have some peer groups that I meet with on a very regular basis and we've just supported each other continuously for one group that we have breakfast about once a month and there are four of us and we were talking about the other day, we've been meeting for almost eight years and helping each other along our journey and just you know supporting each other and you know being there to cry when things weren't going well and I think that's really important just to find a group of people that you really can trust and it will support you and you know be frank with you too and tell you if you're doing something stupid. Because you know we all do stupid things sometimes. Okay maybe that is not the best idea that you've ever had.

20:55

Ramesh: So how do you get, how do you build your customer pipeline?

21:00

Joellyn: Mainly through referrals and I am doing more now online and so that's kind of an interesting adventure, it's just putting myself out there online. Because it's not, it's a different dynamic to get online business versus referral business. But a lot of it is just people who know me, who've met me, who've heard me speak, who've seen things that I’ve written, seen my videos come to me and they say okay I think you know you might be somebody that I want to work with, so let's talk and see if it's a fit.

21:28

Ramesh: So many times, I get questions about what tools should I be using, how do I scale my business. So, what have you been using? What kind of the tools helped you?

21:44

Joellyn: Actually, I have a page on my website for tools that I use. But I’ve tried a lot of different things in terms of scheduling and productivity and things like that. The ones that I find our best are actually the simplest and just things like I'm on the Apple platform and so for me to be able to say hey Siri make an appointment for Tuesday at 9:00 p.m. Or 9:00 a.m., you know that's so simple and it worked and, so I’ve tried some very sophisticated software tools for scheduling and for a tracking client and that's great for capturing data and being able to segment and look back at where did I meet this person and things like that. But sometimes that's kind of a rabbit hole and you end up thermic time with the tool or learning the tool or that it's you're not as productive as you could be if you just went with the simplest route. So as of about a year and a half ago I said I'm just going to simplify and use what works even if it's not the sexiest tool in the world.

22:43

Ramesh: Right, yeah so, I mean as we come towards the tail end of the podcast, couple of questions I have. Number one is, if I'm a business owner, if I have a dream of starting my own business sitting at home listening to the podcast, what advice can you give me?

22:59

Joellyn: I would say think about what that reality might, and I actually just did a series on YouTube on starting a business. So, there's a couple of videos in there that might be very helpful, but really thinking about what it is this you want to do, is that something that people will pay you for, is it something you want to do for the long term? Because if it's something that's just a passing interest, then you're going to get bored and not want to stick with it. But if it's something you feel like you can do for five or ten years, then that's promising. But you have to be able to make money doing it, so if it's a hobby and you're trying to turn a hobby into business, that can be really challenging. But those things putting together a good team like we talked about, people that can support you and just having confidence that you can do it and at some point, in that journey you have to rip off the band-aid and say I'm going in full force and that's the scariest part of all is that day you think quitting the day job, I'm going to make this happen. But it can be done.

23:58

Ramesh: I mean just aside, so do you outsource some tasks, because your solopreneur or you try to do most of the things yourself?

24:09

Joellyn: I do outsource some things and I also with my clients will refer them or help them find partners for things like social media management or website development and things like that. One thing that I’ve realized in my journey is that the things we should outsource or sometimes the things that we enjoy doing the most, like in my weeks working on a website, it's fun. But that's not the best use of my time.

24:35

Ramesh: Writing articles, I mean some things you would write and some you want to outsource, you know that stuff. So, going back on your own entrepreneurial journey, things that you think that you could have done better, should have done earlier anything's that piece of advice.

24:58

Joellyn: Yeah, I think, and this is kind of a tough one being more revenue focused sometimes. As I was building the consulting business I was very concerned about kind of building my brand, building my authority and so I did a lot of the things in the name of branding that I should have been thinking of not only branding and I’m not saying you shouldn't have been focused on branding, that's branding as well as revenue. Because some of those dips that we talked about were sort of self-inflicted, because I kind of lost sight of the fact that you can't just do all this fun for fun or you can't just say for example go do a bunch of speaking engagements, if it's fine if you're getting paid to speak. But if you're not and you're speaking and you're not getting anything out of it in terms of revenue, then maybe that's not really, it's the best thing to do. So, there were a few times where I did things more for that brand awareness or for authority that I didn't have a career path to what's the revenue going to be from doing that.

25:54

Ramesh: That’s a very good. you don't have a sales funnel established out of that engagement or things like that. So, the second time, but that’s a really good piece.

26:06

Joellyn: Yeah and it's not just you know you don't necessarily have to say for speaking in particularly for example you don't have to say I'm going to go to the speaking engagement and I'm going to walk out with three clients. But you do need to know how being in front of those people can eventually lead to revenue. Whether it's their, people that are in your audience and then you're going to start communicating with them and build a connection or if they're people that can refer you to your best client’s things like that. But just knowing that and thinking that through is important.

26:32

Ramesh: That's good. Joellyn anything else that we have not touched upon things that do you think we should know.

26:40

Joellyn: I just think that people should know that it's an amazing journey and it can be very scary. But at the same time if it's something you feel called to do, I would encourage somebody to do it. Because there's nothing worse than sitting on the sidelines and then looking back in ten years, wow! I really wish that I'd done that or at least tried it. You know I mean if you try it and it doesn't work out, there's no harm because you tried. But just dreaming and not doing is you know, it's sad if you miss that opportunity. So, I'd encourage everybody just take the risk, be bold, make it happen.

27:14

Ramesh: That's very good. So Joellyn if you don't mind me asking at the beginning you said you had to leave your place because of a hurricane, which hurricane was that?

27:24

Joellyn: Hurricane Andrew in Miami.

27:26

Ramesh: I remember, its a category 5, wasn’t it?

27:28

Joellyn: It was. We lost our house, but actually you know I tell people now that was actually one of the best things that happened to me. Because it really taught me at a young age how to deal with adversity and you know some of those lessons I had with the hike too of just really understanding you know how do I deal with adversity and how does that kind of mold you and make you stronger and it taught me, one of the best lessons I got from the hurricane because I am an introverted person and I'm quiet and I was brought up to be very self-sufficient and I learned through that experience that it's okay to depend on other people and that there are people who will come out of the woodwork to help someone when needed. Really powerful.

28:14

Ramesh: Yeah, I cannot imagine going through it my self. I myself travel a lot. But that's Wow! It's an incredible experience. Jocelynn thank you very much for your time and it's a very fascinating journey you have, a very adventurous one. So, I wish you in a good luck and very best in your business.

28:31

Joellyn: Oh, great well thank you very much, I appreciate the talk about you, it was fun.

Building a vintage home décor business with Stacy Verdick Case – AEP # 13

June 11th, 2019 by
Guest: ​​​​​​​​​​​Verdick Case

​Company / Business name: ​​​​​​ ​​​Peony Lane Designs

Stacy Verdick Case is owner of Peony Lane Designs where she sells vintage home decor online and also in a brick and mortar shop. She also takes viewers vintage hunting with her on her YouTube channel.

Tools / Books / Resources mentioned:

Tools: Mailchimp, WordPress, Canva

Books: Why We Buy by Paco Underhill; From Poop to Gold by Chris Jones; She Means Business by Carrie Green

Show Notes:

2:05 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Build a business based on your interests and passion

Stacy explains about vintage home décor business and how she got started with the business which essentially grew from her personal interest in vintage furniture and her errands to thrift stores etc.

5:58 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Be realistic about transition from salaried job to a business owner especially during the first year

Stacy talks about her transition from an accountant to a business owner and how she has been learning from her husband’s own business as well as reading books, listening to podcasts etc. She also talks about her difficult first year in business and how she was the most stressed and also most happy at the same time.

9:53 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Know where your customers buy and emphasize those channels

Stacy talks about how she got her paying customers on Etsy and using social media platforms like Pinterest, twitter, and Facebook. She also talks about how these platforms complemented her personality as she is a shy person and wasn’t comfortable being in front of customers.

12:07 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Identify your ideal customer base and keep learning more about their buying habits

Stacy explains her ideal customers of millennials and also women between 35 and 45 years. She also talks about how she blends her own interests of colorful furniture in a vintage décor and how her clients have accepted her style.

15:33 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Outsource where you can and keep the rest for better time management

Stacy gives us more details about her first year where cash flow was a much bigger issue than time management. She also talks about how she involved her family in the business, so it didn’t affect work-life issues as much. She also was able to outsource areas where she was not good at but kept areas like web design that she is interested in.

18:42 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Identify some key ways to validate your business: peer or customer validation

Stacy brings up peer validation as an important motivator in addition to customer validation. She talks about the importance of peer validation in her business much more than market or customer validation to keep her going.

22:48 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Key tools will improve your productivity

Stacy talks about the key tools she uses in her business which are mailchimp for email marketing, Canva for design, and WordPress for CMS.

23:27 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Keep up with your reading to keep going.

Stacy tells us few of the books she likes in her business. They are: ‘Why We Buy’, ‘Poop to Gold’, ‘She means Business’.

25:41 minute mark:

Agile entrepreneur takeaway: Key tools will improve your productivity

Stacy gives advice based on her experience. (1) Don’t overthink it (2) Find a support system especially during the first year. Lastly, many people quit when the success is just around the corner. Her advice is don’t quit.

00:02

Ramesh: Hello everyone welcome to the agile entrepreneur podcast. This is your host Ramesh Dontha. This podcast is about starting on building your own business with purpose, passion, perseverance and possibilities. I am very glad to introduce our guest Stacy Verdick Case. Stacy is the owner of Peony Lane designs, where she sells vintage home decor online and in a brick-and-mortar shop as well. She also takes the viewers vintage hunting with her on her YouTube channel. Hi Stacy welcome.

00:46

Stacy: Thank you Ramesh, I'm glad I'm here. I'm going to be a new fan of your show for sure. I'll be listening to all the other entrepreneurs. This is very exciting for me.


00:55

Ramesh: Definitely I'm going to have really some great people coming and you know doing this podcast. I'm very excited about this podcast series.

01:04

Stacy: You should be, this is wonderful. It's going to be a wonderful opportunity for people to learn from each other. So, I'm glad I'm here.

01:10

Ramesh: So, Stacy my first question what is vintage home decor? I'm really not up to speed on that one.

01:17

Stacy: Yeah well anything that is sort of 40 years old or older is what we consider a vintage home decor item. So, from the late 70s back. But there's a huge trend and I don't know if this is everywhere, but at least here where I am a lot of the younger sort of hipsters like the 1950s, 1960s home decor items and they're getting harder and harder to find. So, what I do is I go out hunting for them and then you know it's sort of a curated experience when they come to my shop, they can find what they're looking for in a short amount of time. Where I spend hours hunting for a different vintage item.

02:01

Ramesh: Interesting, so how did you start this business?

02:05

Stacy: You know I’ve always loved just doing thrift stores and garage sales and yard sales and shopping that way. I was a vintage junky way before it was cool. I mean my house is very vintage. It's mixed with a lot of modern design elements and so I’ve always liked having that unique look in my home and then I started doing a lot of DIY and upcycling of items and then it got out of control and that's how the business really started was I had way too much stuff, but it was all this wonderful incredible stuff that I couldn't just let to go to a landfill or you know a dump or a tip, it depends on where you're from, however you want to say it. But you know my husband said to me one day, "what are you going to do with all this stuff? And I said, "I'm going to sell it" and that was really the beginning of this idea of I'm going to do this, and I had gone on a hundred-mile garage sale with my sister and I met another person who was doing this. By accident she had her logo on the side of her van and I said hey can I ask you some questions and she really gave me some great advice and I'm hoping that's what I’ll be able to do for anybody else who's looking to you know pay it forward and if anybody else wants to do what I'm doing, I'd love to give them advice.

03:33

Ramesh: Fantastic that is very nice of you. So how long have you been in the business?

03:39

Stacy: Full-time for the last three years, prior to that I was sort of dabbling in it, getting my feet wet in the store and I had started a booth at a store called picket fence gals in Lindstrom here in Minnesota and that was, I'm still there. But I started there, and it was so overwhelming. I was not prepared for what was involved and then I quit for about a year and then came back to it when I felt like I was ready to, I knew what it was about, and I knew the effort it was going to take. So, you know it was really a hard learning experience when I had to say I can't do this anymore, because I really wasn't prepared, and I don't think people realize and I certainly didn't the amount of effort that goes into to run a store.

04:30

Ramesh: So, you accidently stumbled into a business or you always thought about having your own business for a sometime.

04:38

Stacy: I had always liked the idea of being my own boss, my husband is self-employed. I liked the idea of being creative. I also write books. So, it was something that I was thinking I'm going to do eventually. I mean I didn't know what it was going to be, but I kind of knew eventually I wanted to do something that was entrepreneurial.

05:05

Ramesh: Okay so the name, Peony Lane Designs. What is it and how did you come up with it?

05:12

Stacy: Well Peonies are my favorite flower and half the country says peony and I say it the way my Norwegian grandmother always said it, which was peony. So that's how I’ve always said it and I’ve been corrected a million times, but it's my business and I'm calling it peony. So, they're my favorite flowers I have them everywhere around my house. My mother has them around her house. So, its like a peony Lane over here and that's what, it just went, hey that's the name of my business "peony Lane designs."

05:44

Ramesh: So, I mean you didn't have much of a business background and you're accidentally stumbled into the business. So how was it like? I mean can you describe the what your first month of being in a business full-time?

05:58

Stacy: Well I had had a business background it is working for other people. I mean I was an accountant for 20 years. So, I knew about making sure my finances were in shape and making sure that you know cash flow was right and you know there's all these little things that accounting speak I could throw at you right now, but nobody, that's really boring. But you know as far as knowing how to start a business, it was really watching my husband start his and watching him make mistakes that I learned from him and then I became like an entrepreneurial junkie. I listen to podcasts like yours, I read books, and this is another year of growth for me. So, I'm actually doing the same thing were in binging a lot of books that are higher on the scale than I was before. So, a lot of the stuff that I originally learned were beginner things and now I'm sort of where do I go next, how do I level up.

06:55

Ramesh: So how long did it take for you to really get your feet in the ground?

07:01

Stacy: Well that first year was brutal. I got to tell you there were days that I cried, and I was like what was I thinking? I think every entrepreneur goes through that. Yeah you just have that impostor syndrome and you're thinking it would have been so much easier just to work for someone and make a salary and not have to worry about money and you know but at the same time you're enjoying it so much, that it's like doesn't matter how painful it is, you still want to do it and I tried to explain it to a friend of mine and I said, I’ve never been so stressed out and so happy in my whole life. So that kept me going, it was that joy.

07:49

Ramesh: I honestly, I mean that actually comes through each one of my, I interviewed the first year, the brutal first year. But at the same time the liberating experience of being on your own.

08:00

Stacy: Yeah exactly and everybody is going to tell you that they've had impostor syndrome and I'm no different. I think we all go through that, why do I think I know anything?

08:12

Ramesh: So, what kept you going? I mean so you could have quit. So, did somebody motivate you? Support you or you found that a drive within yourself?

08:25

Stacy: I have a lot of Drive within myself. I'm kind of stubborn. But at the same time my family is a wonderful support system for me. My father has been like my biggest fan, my biggest cheerleader through all of this. I think if he hadn't been, you got this, you know what you're doing. He taught me all the DIY things that I know. So, for him to say of course you know what you're doing and if you have a question you can always call me was like thank you, it was that little support that one voice and I think everyone has that person in their life, if you don't you would never jump in to starting a business. But we all have that one person who's like rah rah you can do this, you can do this, and you know if you don't have it in yourself, of course you will quit, and I have it. You know I have that determination and that drive. But without that extra voice of saying you do know this, I certainly probably would have given up.

09:26

Ramesh: Yeah that's great Stacy. I mean you're talking about that one person finding that one person is very very important for you to keep going. That is very nice, thank you. So, you have an accounting background. So, you know about the numbers and all that good stuff. But how about getting the customers. You know how did you find your first set of customers and how did you fill the gaps in marketing and sales and promotion aspects of your business?

09:53

Stacy: Yeah that's been the hardest part for me. Because I'm inherently shy which is really strange. There's a lot of entrepreneurs that I’ve run into who we're all shy and it's been really hard to say especially creative entrepreneurs to go out and tell people what you do and that's again another thing that I'm working on, it was part of my goals for this year is telling people what I do. Part of the reason I'm on your show right now, because ordinarily I wouldn't be brave enough to do this. you know it's like talking about my business was always very uncomfortable. So that's the part that I’ve had to get over and I kind of started secretly like I had the shop that I was in and I would I would put business cards out. Because I felt like that was my way of saying, "hey Here I am," without me being in people's face. So, they could take a card or not.

10:51

Ramesh: But how did you get your first customer, paying customers.

10:56

Stacy: Yeah, my first paying customer and if you're talking about vintage items, my first paying customer was Etsy. So, going out there and then I promoted it through like Pinterest and Twitter and Facebook and I really liked those platforms, because it allowed me to be anonymous and get my feet wet and get that confidence built. Now I'm more, I will go to vintage sales like pop up sales locally and I will talk to people and promote myself that way. But Etsy for somebody who's interested in selling a product that you're making or a product that you're a vintage product is a great way to make that sale and build your confidence with or eBay or whatever online platform. Because online allows you to still remain anonymous. So, if you have any doubts or confidence issues, you can still do it but remain behind the curtain so to speak.

11:54

Ramesh: So, who are your target customers. What's the sweet spot of demographics wise or location wise however you want to go through that?

12:07

Stacy: I primarily target Millennials for the vintage items. Because they're more interested in having that sort of funky bohemian look in their home. But for my DIY channel, I'm looking at women who are between 35 and say 40,45. So that age, those are the women that are taking more chances. They have a house that's established, and they may have a perfect item in their home. But it's getting worn or the joints are loose, and they want to learn to repair it and make it pretty again and those are the women that I target for that. So primarily women, millennials for the vintage items and then older middle-aged women for the DIY.

12:51

Ramesh: So how do you differentiate your business or yourself?

12:58

Stacy: From other people that do what I do?

13:00

Ramesh: Exactly similar businesses, yeah.

13:02

Stacy: Yeah and I think everyone has their own style. I'm very much a colorful mid-century person where if you look at other DIY errs there's a lot of the farmhouse chic, a lot of white, a lot of you know it's like I can't, if you painted my house white I would be so twitchy, I wouldn't be able to survive. I mean I love color. So, a lot of the projects that you'll see me do involve color and you know bright colors and things like that. So that's, everyone can do their own thing that way. But for my vintage items, I primarily source things that are of high quality and a lot of times you'll go on to vintage sellers on Etsy and its sort of like a garage sale. So, they want, you know they'll sell things that are broken and damaged and I want my customers to know that what you're getting from me is going to be pristine. If there is any damage I'm usually not interested. So, it's I want high quality.

14:09

Ramesh: So, I mean when you're buying these items are you buying with you in mind, like buying for yourself and then selling them or when you actually think of your customers, okay this is what they would like and then buying for them? How do you go through the process?

14:24

Stacy: Both, because ultimately when I buy something it's mine I own it and I'm stuck with it. If it doesn't sell, I have to like it. But I do have clients that I shop for now. After the first year I got a client that was like, "hey I know you're out shopping a lot, this is what I'm looking for, I collect this. Can you know find this for me." and I have five clients now that I will source for when I'm out. So, I have lists of what they like, what they're looking for and then I shop with them in mind. But as far as like my shop itself on Etsy or my vintage shop, the brick-and-mortar store, I buy what I like. Because I figure you there there's somebody out there like me who's going to like it as well and if not, I got to take it home and live with it.

15:16

Ramesh: So now I'm switching back into the business you said the first year was brutal. So, I want to have some specifics like is it the cash flow or is it the time management? Too many things to do or is it the work-life balance or can you get into some of the specific challenges you faced.

15:33

Stacy: Yeah, I think for everyone that first year money-wise that is the primary cause of strain. You know what I mean it's like you don't have a steady income anymore and your income is sporadic and that was really hard for me to get a grasp on. The time management not so much. I've incorporated my family into what I do. So, I was able to, like my daughter goes with me. She appears in videos and people love her. She's kind of part of that now and yeah, it's been like, that's what I wanted. I wanted to have something where I could manage my time and include my family in what I do. But the stress of you are everything when you start a business. You have to learn web design, you have to learn marketing, you have to learn sales, you have to learn you know transportation. It was just like everything is on your shoulders and that's so overwhelming and I don't think you think about it when you jump in and I highly recommend people don't overthink it. Because if you do you will never start. But you do have to at some point go, is this something I can afford to have done by somebody else, because I don't have this skill set. Like I enjoy web design. So, it was something I didn't mind learning to do, but there were things like graphic design that is not my forte and I am creative for furniture and things like that. But like designing a logo I couldn't do that. You know I outsource that, I outsource a lot of my ads and you know things like that that, that's not me, I'm not that person. So, you have to know where your pain point is like what is more important to spend money on and what is less important and what can you learn to do. So, it is, there's a lot of learning involved, you are it, you are everything. That's overwhelming.

17:42

Ramesh: I could see. So now you have gone through the challenges and you were going through these challenges and at some point, you found the confidence that hey it's working out. So, what was that? Was it that some really good customer and what gave you the confidence that you can do it?

18:01

Stacy: Well when my peers started to appreciate what I was doing, that was really great. So, I have a lot of women that I corresponds with and when somebody reached out to me and said I love that dresser that you did, and I was like, "wow I follow you religiously on social media and I love what you do." so to get that feedback and have somebody who you admire tell you that they admire what you're doing was huge for me. That was a great tipping point for me.

18:33

Ramesh: That’s actually true. It's basically it's not the customer validation but your peer validation is what really gave you the confidence in this case.

18:42

Stacy: It was, and you know the customers are awesome and I have wonderful customers like I said that I source for and I love them, I adore them. Because they're fun and what they're looking for is not something that I would typically be interested in and I’ve learned so much from them. But that pure validation and I don't want to say that you should require validation from outside. Because you know if you don't have that fire within you, you’re going to you're going to be depressed a lot. So, I mean there were days that it was like you're by yourself in a room and you're doing everything yourself, you don't have that interaction with employees or other people at your company, that's hard. So, if you can't tolerate that, any kind of external validation isn't going to help. But for me that moment of, hey I’ve been watching you and I like what you do from somebody who I felt was higher up than me in this process was amazing.

19:46

Ramesh: That’s very nice. Actually, you should listen to Gale Carson's podcast that they're in the website. I mean she's eighty-year-old lady, that's exactly what she said. She said she never gets depressed. I mean she's gone through multiple cancer related issues and loss of loved ones and all the stuff, but she keeps coaching you know women especially 50-plus. But the peer validation, market validation is a couple of important things that she talked about, that’s great.

20:17

Stacy: Yeah, I would love to, I will.

20:19

Ramesh: Please do and then so again continuing with the business aspect of it, so you said you have learned a lot of things, the Web Design and all the stuff. Can you tell our listeners what are the key tools that you use that you cannot live without?

20:35

Stacy: WordPress I couldn't live without. I think that's one of the best web design platforms that I’ve seen, and I have done Joomla, I’ve done HTML. I learned HTML back in the day when it was the only way to go. But I think WordPress is brilliant with all the plugins and it allows you to incorporate your social media and your you know they are your brand building tools like that. So, I mean it's wonderful and it lets me incorporate my store and all this great stuff. It's just wonderful. There's so many developers for WordPress that are doing things that are free, that as an entrepreneur when you're starting out you couldn't come up with a better platform.

21:18

Ramesh: That’s is one main thing. How about email marketing?

21:22

Stacy: Oh yeah you got a build that email list and I was really behind the eight ball on that one, I did not start my email list right away. Which was stupid, and you know you hear about things like Instagram was down for a day and Facebook was down for a day and now that I have my email list built up, I don't worry about that anymore. They don't own my customers. You know it's like I have my own list of my own customers. I'm not really great at email marketing. Ironically that's something I'm reading a book on as we speak is what content do I add to my email marketing to make it more valuable for the person reading it. I don't want to just sell to people that are on my list, I'd like to give them something. You know it's, I don't know if you guys listen to and I don't remember who said it. I know Sonny Leonard says it all the time on her podcast, it's that jab jab right hook kind of mentality. Yeah so you give give and then you ask. You know you don't want to just, yeah, the lead magnet thing. It's like if you just go to my store, go to my store, go to my store you're going to lose people real fast. So that's been hard.

22:40

Ramesh: So, WordPress, email marketing and so some of the any other tools that come to your mind?

22:48

Stacy: Well there are a lot of tools that I use. But they're not really okay sales tools that you know I have, there is graphic design tools there's something called, I can tell you because it's right in front of me. Word swag that I use to generate pretty content for Instagram. You know I'm not like I said not good at that pretty designs.

23:14

Ramesh: How about Canva as well.

23:16

Stacy: Oh, I love Canva.

23:19

Ramesh: Yeah so that's good. So, you talked about a book that you're reading. So, what are your favorite books, books that really helped you?

23:27

Stacy: Hang on, I can tell you exactly because I'm sitting in my office right now and I can look around. So, I had, if you're going to sell something the number one book that I recommend for people is called why we buy and it's a perennial classic. I think it came out in the late 80s, early 90s but they've revised and updated it and it literally talks about why people buy, what makes things more appealing, how you can improve stores, shops, online stores to make things more appealing to people to buy. So, if you're going to be selling a product of physical tangible product and that is just brilliant and then I like, and this is, don't laugh, the book is called from poop to gold. It's by the marketing guys that did the chat book commercials, which I found hilariously funny. Yeah and they talked about mark with humor and I love that. So that was one of my favorites and then, she means business is a new favorite of mine by Kerry Greene. That one I found tremendously helpful and I think for women. Because it addresses a lot of the issues that we have as far as confidence and knowing our value and our Worth and a lot of women will not ever ask for what they're worth and that translates into when I'm selling a product and I'm like, should I be the cheapest and I think, well no I don't want to be known as the cheapest you know. I want to be known for quality. So, I'm not going to then undervalue that quality. So, it was very important for me to read that book. So, it was one of my new favorites.

25:18

Ramesh: So, Stacy as we come towards you know the last few pieces of the podcast here, so I just want to focus on what can you tell other people sitting in their homes or me wanting to start a business. So, what are the things that you think I should really focus on?

25:41

Stacy: First, my number one tip for people is to not overthink it, because you will talk yourself out of it mmm and if it's something that you are driven to do, and you've been dreaming of doing for a very long time, now is the time. Because right now there's never been more, a better time, more opportunities for people to teach online, to sell online, to you know market any type of business to a global audience than right now and I mean I think it's just the wild wild west of entrepreneurial spirit right now and I love it. I absolutely love being alive right now. Because I love seeing all these women and men who are like you know what this sitting in a cube doesn't work for me. So, if you're at all inclined and you have an idea, you need to start working on getting it off the ground right now. The other thing I would say is that first year, find your support system, know who that person is going to be and tap them. Make sure that they know you're untapped to be my cheerleader and the day that I say, I can't do this I want to quit, they need to be there to slap you upside the head and say no you're not, you're going to push through this. Because that first year is when most people quit. Because it's so hard. So, if you're in that first year, make sure you know who that person is, and you tell them, you slap me if I want to quit. Cause I will guarantee there'll be a moment where you're like just after that time that you thought I can't do this anymore, there's something great is going to happen for you. So, don't quit.

27:29

Ramesh: Excellent. Success is just around the corner, and [27:34 inaudible].

27:35

Stacy: Yes, it's exactly true. Most people literally quit on the verge of success, because it seems to me like that's when it gets the hardest and I don't know if that's like God or the universe or however you want to say it going are you really ready for this?

27:51

Ramesh: Right, actually I can't recollect the book, but there's a book just about that aspect of it actually. People just quit.

27:57

Stacy: I would love to read it, if you could remember what it is, please email me.

28:03

Ramesh: I will let you know. It's like many people and they've done the research and just quit, just when they're about to you know really you know crush it.

28:11

Stacy: I felt that. I would love to read a book like that Ramesh.

28:17

Ramesh: I will find it and I will let you know. So, the last question, now what are the things that you wish you could have done, I mean I know we can't go back and do it. But things that we can help others, things that you could have done better or earlier or whatever?

28:36

Stacy: I wish I would have started selling online sooner. That has been a wonderful source of income for me. I didn't even think about it. It was like I wanted to have a store and I'm going to sell it locally and you know you're limiting yourself so much if you're selling a product by doing that. So, if you're creative and you're crafty or you're selling a product, you have to sell it online. I can't tell people enough. I've waited a year. The first year that I quit the shop and then went back, I had not sold online that entire time and I think if I had started selling online, I might not have quit.

29:20

Ramesh: And the reason you did not sell online was because of the shipping and other logistical issues?

29:28

Stacy: Yeah really literally that's exactly what it was. I was so afraid of like what? It's going to get broken and somebody's going to give me a bad review and here's the ironic part about that Ramesh, before I was an accountant I was an exporter for 10 years. So, I shipped some of the most delicate semiconductors in the world across the ocean and I never broke one and I thought you know how to pack things, what are thinking? And now when I look back I think every job I ever had even through high school prepared me to be an entrepreneur. It's amazing the things that I know that I went, I didn't realize you need to really take stock of what you know. You know more than you think you do.

30:13

Ramesh: That is very very true honestly. We underestimate ourselves.

30:17

Stacy: Yes, we do.

30:19

Ramesh: So, Stacy any last-minute thoughts, so far, it's been just excellent advice that you have been giving?

30:26

Stacy: Don't be afraid to ask for help. I was notorious, I got to do it myself, I got to do it myself. People want to help you. Your friends, your family, even clients when you say I don't know how to do this can someone help me and the first time I reached out I was so embarrassed that I had to ask for help. Because I thought I was failing by doing that. Don't feel that way. People want, you to succeed and they want to help you.

30:55

Ramesh: That's been true in my case and I think many, I think many people's cases it is true. But somehow that hesitation is there in most of us. And Stacy so fantastic and good luck with Peony Lane designs, the third year is a breakthrough for most of the entrepreneurs that I talk to and it looks like that is the case with you as well. So good luck.

31:20

Stacy: Oh wonderful, thank you so much Ramesh and thank you for your podcast. I will be listening like I said I think this is a great opportunity for people to learn. So, this is wonderful, I'm glad you're doing it.

31:30

Ramesh: Thank you, thank you very much.